Getting down to brass tacks, I'll lay out my honest position:
1. I don't like the idea of attacking a problem by sweeping up everyone with a solution. For example, here in CT we had one county who was caught messing with ballots, and a rule was passed where every single voting district was forbidden from crossing a line near the machines. This negatively affected areas with large senior constitutes who needed help simply feeding the ballot into the machine. Why should everyone else suffer like this, for one bad actor?
Sure, its the easier method to be sure, but that is the point. Fixing a problem without regard for those you hurt in the process is simply unacceptable.
2. Even if I did agree with the gun control side, I don't see it as fixing the problems. Because the problems aren't really gun laws... Not really.
The problems are caused by the fact that guns exist and are easily available.
If you want to end gun violence, you need to end gun availability. And in the US, that simply isn't happening.
That's why the "fight over gun rights" doesn't work me up like other issues, because in the end the fight is over the inconsequential. The Right won'tl lose their guns. The left won't stop gun violence.
It is what it is, and neither side will fix it.
Originally posted by cdtmCorrection limiting gun availability would take time but it's not impossible
Getting down to brass tacks, I'll lay out my honest position:1. I don't like the idea of attacking a problem by sweeping up everyone with a solution. For example, here in CT we had one county who was caught messing with ballots, and a rule was passed where every single voting district was forbidden from crossing a line near the machines. This negatively affected areas with large senior constitutes who needed help simply feeding the ballot into the machine. Why should everyone else suffer like this, for one bad actor?
Sure, its the easier method to be sure, but that is the point. Fixing a problem without regard for those you hurt in the process is simply unacceptable.
2. Even if I did agree with the gun control side, I don't see it as fixing the problems. Because the problems aren't really gun laws... Not really.
The problems are caused by the fact [b]that guns exist and are easily available.
If you want to end gun violence, you need to end gun availability. And in the US, that simply isn't happening.
That's why the "fight over gun rights" doesn't work me up like other issues, because in the end the fight is over the inconsequential. The Right won'tl lose their guns. The left won't stop gun violence.
It is what it is, and neither side will fix it. [/B]
Originally posted by Newjak
Correction limiting gun availability would take time but it's not impossible
How?
Lets assume the second amendment did not exist as an obstacle (As it certainly is for any large scale dismantling of gun availability). Assuming a scenerio of seizure on a massive scale, do you think people wouldn't hoard and hide them?
Think prohibition. It failed to stop alcohol, organized crime made sure of that.
Or look at the war on drugs. It too failed, organized crime made sure of that.
Why would a ban on guns end any differently?
Originally posted by cdtmYou can point to other countries to see successful programs used to initiate less gun availability.
How?Lets assume the second amendment did not exist as an obstacle (As it certainly is for any large scale dismantling of gun availability). Assuming a scenerio of seizure on a massive scale, do you think people wouldn't hoard and hide them?
Think prohibition. It failed to stop alcohol, organized crime made sure of that.
Or look at the war on drugs. It too failed, organized crime made sure of that.
Why would a ban on guns end any differently?
Buybacks being one such program.
Originally posted by Newjak
You can point to other countries to see successful programs used to initiate less gun availability.Buybacks being one such program.
😆 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂
Buyback, right. You mean like how Australia did it? 😂
Or how about how the government illegally seized guns from law-abiding Americans in New Orleans area after Hurricane Katrina? They never got their guns back, neither did those in Australia.
F*** gun control.
Originally posted by Newjak
You can point to other countries to see successful programs used to initiate less gun availability.Buybacks being one such program.
Yet the UK has a knife and acid problem.
Japan has a suicide problem.
In Germany a pocket knife can land you in jail.
Those are not successful at all. Ban guns in the US, then people with hoard it.
I also find it funny that we say guns are the problem, but not the evil people that uses them to commit crimes.
Originally posted by SquallXThe U.K. violent crime rate is much lower than the U.S.
Yet the UK has a knife and acid problem.
Japan has a suicide problem.
In Germany a pocket can land you in jail.Those are not successful at all. Ban guns in the US, then people with hoard it.
I also find it funny that we say guns are the problem, but not the evil people that uses them to commit crimes.
Suicide is not caused by having less guns.
Originally posted by SquallXDo you not understand what less violent crime means :/
Not knife and acid attacks.Yet in America death by gun suicides are also also use to inflate gun violence.
You're creating a strawman argument there with guns and suicides.
People don't say guns make people suicidal. The statistics show that access to guns tend to create more suicides because it's a perfect tool for suicidal people to commit act.
It's quick, efficient, and often times painless. Studies have shown the harder or potentially more painful a suicide is the less likely a person is to go through with it.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae😂 😆 😂 😆
Again, you can always, you know, MOVE to someplace where citizens are not allowed to own guns if you like. But you won't, will you? Of course not, you'd rather just keep whining about America while continue to hypocritically enjoy the benefits of being American.
Originally posted by SquallX
Yet the UK has a knife and acid problem.
Japan has a suicide problem.
In Germany a pocket knife can land you in jail.Those are not successful at all. Ban guns in the US, then people with hoard it.
I also find it funny that we say guns are the problem, but not the evil people that uses them to commit crimes.
To put your claims into perspective
There's about the same number of gun attacks in Chicago in a weekend as there is acid attacks in London in a year.
There's about 250-300 knife deaths a year in the UK. There's about 150× that number of gun deaths in the US.
Originally posted by Newjak
Do you not understand what less violent crime means :/You're creating a strawman argument there with guns and suicides.
People don't say guns make people suicidal. The statistics show that access to guns tend to create more suicides because it's a perfect tool for suicidal people to commit act.
It's quick, efficient, and often times painless. Studies have shown the harder or potentially more painful a suicide is the less likely a person is to go through with it.
Yet you’re using that as your point?
Just banning something doesn’t work.
What happen to the criminals when you ban guns? Are they magically going to stop using guns? Look at Chicago, a strict gun zone, yet theirs almost one death from gun violence every weekends.
@Squal
The point was that developed countries with stricter gun control laws have less violent crime issues.
Saying that they have a subset that is higher doesn't change the overall point. 😉
Ah Chicago every conservatives favorite scapegoat. You do know most of the guns in Chicago get bought in the neighboring state where there are more lax gun control laws right?
Originally posted by jaden_2.0he doesn’t realise that guns are more effective at killing and don’t serve other purposes like knives and acids do. ermm
To put your claims into perspectiveThere's about the same number of gun attacks in Chicago in a weekend as there is acid attacks in London in a year.
There's about 250-300 knife deaths a year in the UK. There's about 150× that number of gun deaths in the US.
Originally posted by Newjak
@SqualThe point was that developed countries with stricter gun control laws have less violent crime issues.
Saying that they have a subset that is higher doesn't change the overall point. 😉
Ah Chicago every conservatives favorite scapegoat. You do know most of the guns in Chicago get bought in the neighboring state where there are more lax gun control laws right?
1. No they don’t. The only reason the US makes it so high is because we inflate all gun shooting into one category.
2. Yes it does. It proves that just because you ban something, doesn’t make it go away. You have to look deeper. Alcohol was once banned, looked what happened.
3. It’s not a talking point when it’s true. Law bidding citizens hates their gun laws. And no shit. Ban guns, and criminals will find a way to sneaks it in.