Top ten Marvel Martial artists update

I know there have been a dozen lists of top martial artists in Marvel but given the interest in Shang Chi and the reboot of the Iron Fist series thwt is coming it was probablt worth looking at this again.

To keep it simple lets establish simple ground rules unless the character is well known for their martial arts skills then we limit it to ground level characters thus Wolverine or Deadpool can be considered as could Moondragon and Mantis as martial arts were fundamental elements of their characters since both gained their abilities from training with effectively alien monks.

So my list off the top of my head would be

1) Shang Chi
2) Iron Fist
3) Mantis
4) Gamora
5) Moon Dragon
6) Master Izo
7) Daredevil
8) Fat Cobra
9) Elektra
10) Karnak
Honorary mention: Moon Knight
Again guys its just of the top of my head so what are your top tens and how wood guys like Black Tarantula, Stick, Wolverine, Deadpool, Midnight Sun, Collen Wing, Mr. X, Taskmaster, Echo, Hawkeye/Ronin, Bullseye, Lady Bullseye, Shroud (also trained by monks and blindedd so i surprised he and Daredevil haven’t had more storylines since Shroud was in organized crime as well).

I clearly gave preference to characters who don’t normally use weapons since I think that speaks more to their martial arts skills, like Gamoras for example is often referred to as the most dangerous woman in the galaxy but in the original storyline when that was said it was speaking more to her skill at deception and willingness to kill with no hesitation even if it meant blowing up whole space stations rather than referred to he$r personal martial arts skills which were only later addressed in the Infinity Watch when it was shown that Thanos personally trained her and so any person who can fight one on one against Thanos without super powers is clearly talented.
Anyway thoughts?

Being flashy =/= being in top 10.

Same as detecting and exploiting weaknesses doesn't make you an elite fighter (everybody has whooped Karnak's ass with ease).

The list is ****ed up. No way Danny is the best martial artist, Shang is better. Daredevil is too low, Mantis and Moondragon should be out of the list as they are hardly shown as martial artists anymore. Also Elektra is too low and Karnak being there is a joke.

But most importantly, where are Cap and Logan?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Being flashy =/= being in top 10.

Same as detecting and exploiting weaknesses doesn't make you an elite fighter (everybody has whooped Karnak's ass with ease).

You’re not going to make a top ten list that’s close to accurate, because it’s a shifting and subjective target. There’s no analogy to ranking, say, strength feats because we can’t measure MA skill objectively, so we mostly go off of who-beats-who, and that becomes totally circular. Even guys like Shang Chi who might be currently favoured for a top spot lose a lot of credibility when you look at their whole history.

Best you can do is carve out some rough tiers to group people together.

That said, your initial list is missing some obvious names to consider. For instance, Cap and Panther are both somewhere north of Moon Knight.

Final note: f*ck Karnak, he ranks at the bottom.

Originally posted by Smurph
You’re not going to make a top ten list that’s close to accurate, because it’s a shifting and subjective target. There’s no analogy to ranking, say, strength feats because we can’t measure MA skill objectively, so we mostly go off of who-beats-who, and that becomes totally circular. Even guys like Shang Chi who might be currently favoured for a top spot lose a lot of credibility when you look at their whole history.

Best you can do is carve out some rough tiers to group people together.

That said, your initial list is missing some obvious names to consider. For instance, Cap and Panther are both somewhere north of Moon Knight.

Final note: f*ck Karnak, he ranks at the bottom.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Karnak is so useless that he is the worst champion in even the video games, I'm playing contests of champions and he is the ****ing worst

😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Along with Beast lol

In Beast's defense, fighting is really not his forte. Never has been. Same thing with Richards (who sucks at fighting, too).

But Karnak? Fighting skills are all he has. And they f*cking suck.

Also Okoye > Danny Rand confirmed

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Okoye vs Danny Rand:

Keep posting that in cdtm's face, maybe that will shut him up, eventually.

Points taken Black Panther and cap were too obvious oversights, like I said it was off the top of my head. Clearly Cap and T’Challa should have been on the list. i know alot of people don’t like Karnak, and he’s not my favorite at all but a gut who can drop an entire building, shatter steel doors nd break unbreakable Wakandan crystal with single strikes without superhuman strength clearly deserves to be on a list of top martial artists because its not just that he can see weaknesses but he can wuse his martial skill to take advantage of it because if you pointed to the weak spot in abuilding a certainly wouldn’t have been able to strike it strong or accurately enough to make it collapse. Moon Knight was included of course because anyone who can stagger Iron Fist in direct hand to hand combat (which he did in Avengers #33 before using the Ankh) deserves to be on the list because this is the same Iron Fist who beat guys like Sabertooth with little difficulty, so to my mindmthat puts Moon Knight somewhere on a list. I’m not really a Monn Knight Fan and probably only read a handfull of issues of any of the Moon Knight series over the last 40 years. That being said where would you put Cap or Panther.

Keep in mind I don’t think my list is correct it was just a starting point. I’m really curious to see what everyone else thinks and i am sure there are a dozen more fighters i forgot.

Karnak is the worst, let it be

Yeah Okoye is a definite oversight so again whee would Cap Panther and Okoye go? does Okoye rank rank above Mantis who without super powers was able to defeat Thor in h2h combat or does Iron Fist just get demoted to a lower number?

In Erimoros' defence as a new guy - at least he posted a list, so kudos to him. And welcome.

I assume we are going off skill, and whilst Stilt is right and flashy =/= skill - where would you guys rank someone like Hulk, lol. H2H is all he has, and he is phucking amazing at it - you might call it 'brawling' and 'unskilled', but he makes the most of it.

Unless we say that actually, he is just utilising his physical stats - level them, and he actually has no skills?

Also, what about Punisher hehe.

Karnak can have his own tier with Blade and Shatterstar.

Moondragon I think has to be on any list since sh’e beaten Mantis nd Cap in direct h2h combat, if that doesn’t put you on a list of top martial artists I don’t know what does. Not even counting the time that whe ***** slapped Daredevil because he wasn’t trying to fight her, but being able to lay out a guy normally hard to touch is still something. Her character has been handled terribly since every writer treats her completely differently, one second she can mind control whole planets and penetrate Galactus’ mind the next she’s a complete jobber.

Yeah no its a good point Saint, so where do spy/soldier types like Frank Castle Black Widow, and Nick Fury rank?

Cat = Shang = Danny = white tiger

Steel Serpent

Cap = Logan

Stick = Daredevil = Electra

I think i’m with you Whir ly more or less, though I think Marvel keeps emphasizing that Shang is the better martial artist but my only question is about White Tiger, who is one of the many I forgot along with Orson. I’m not as familiar with White Tiger, or this most recent version. You think this new version ranks up above Cap and Black Panther? Also what about Smurph’s point about Okoye?

Not sure if this permanently places Okoye at that level however since she beat Iron Fist in that exchange using the dragon chi which isn’t something that is part of her normal ability set

And to be clear I’m not sure deflecting a single strike from Danny then getting swept while supercharged with Chi from the dragon spider confirms in any way that she is better than Danny. I do think she ranks somewhere on the list definitely though just don’t think that one example suggests in any way that she is superior.