Top ten Marvel Martial artists update

Karnak, Moondragon, and Gamora don't belong on that list. Karnak's record is almost all losses. Gamora can't beat Winter Soldier. Moondragon beat a weakened Cap, so the feat is wanked a bit more than it should be. And she hasn't been written like that in the last what....30 years? It's time to let it go, isn't it?

I'd argue similar for Mantis tbh, but folks get touchy about her. I will grant her this: She suffers from being in space -- most of her opponents are no-names so she it's hard to gauge her. Plus, she has other powers, so those get focused on sometimes. She did recently beat Karnak I guess, but also everyone beats Karnak.

Either way, there's just far more relevant fighters to consider at this point. Captain America, Black Panther, Wolverine. Heck, Black Widow got the 'ol movie upgrade and stalemated Elektra. She's definitely more relevant than Karnak and such.

Originally posted by Erimoros
Points taken Black Panther and cap were too obvious oversights, like I said it was off the top of my head. Clearly Cap and T’Challa should have been on the list. i know alot of people don’t like Karnak, and he’s not my favorite at all but a gut who can drop an entire building, shatter steel doors nd break unbreakable Wakandan crystal with single strikes without superhuman strength clearly deserves to be on a list of top martial artists because its not just that he can see weaknesses but he can wuse his martial skill to take advantage of it because if you pointed to the weak spot in abuilding a certainly wouldn’t have been able to strike it strong or accurately enough to make it collapse. Moon Knight was included of course because anyone who can stagger Iron Fist in direct hand to hand combat (which he did in Avengers #33 before using the Ankh) deserves to be on the list because this is the same Iron Fist who beat guys like Sabertooth with little difficulty, so to my mindmthat puts Moon Knight somewhere on a list. I’m not really a Monn Knight Fan and probably only read a handfull of issues of any of the Moon Knight series over the last 40 years. That being said where would you put Cap or Panther.

Keep in mind I don’t think my list is correct it was just a starting point. I’m really curious to see what everyone else thinks and i am sure there are a dozen more fighters i forgot.

Karnak DOES have superhuman strength. Do your research.

And nobody is denying his ability. Shattering inanimate objects is one thing, fighting living opponents is the other.

Boards don't strike back.

Stilt for the majority of Karnak’s history in comics he was the only inhuman who hadn’t undergone terrigenesis so he then didn’t have significant super strength and was greater than human strength due to denser inhuman tissue letting him lift up to 1 ton. Which makes him half as strong as Black Panther and 65% stronger than Captain America so not in any range that most people consider superstrong within the context of the marvel universe since there are strong men in the real world who have completed a 6,270lb back lifts, 1,200 squats, 780 bench presses (Paul Anderson) so maybe you should try and keep things in context in relaton to the spiriit of the statement before assuming that you know more are in a position to tell others to do research.
Also I’m not sure where you read in the beginning of this thread that it was about who could fight best because i think there are other threads for that this was clearly marked as discussing who were the greatest martial artists and in case you weren’t aware in the world of martial arts its always encompassed more than just fighting most martial arts competitions for example include g]breaking competitions as a way of.demonstrating focus.
It’s also really funny how triggered you guys can get over the mention of a character without actually looking at the full scope. like I said Karnak isn’t one of my favorite characters don’t really like him at all, but I do know that within Marvel, within the company itself they include him as one of the top martial artists because when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee cretaed him that’s what they said he was and within the company if those to say it is a rule just like the Hulk is the Strongest and so forth. He looks more like a jobber because he’s an inhuman and they don’t run around fighting bank robbers and muggers so he’s using his skills on a higher scale which generally doesn’t work out as well because the writers have to have one or two inhumans get taken out to establish the threat so that then Black Bolt can take it out after its established as a threat. it’s just how it works but if you paid attention intermixed you have him knocking out demons, and on one occasion took out Black widow and Iron man at the same time.
Like I said it doesn’t matter to me though, you can waste your energy hating on Karnak all you want It’s your time and like I said he’s never been a character i liked but he got listed because Marvel lists him and says he is one of the greatest martiall artists and describes him as “having easily beaten Black Widow, Iron Man, and Fantomex” that’s Marvel’s words not mine. but maybe he should pad his record with some wins over Turk in hell’s kitchen to get himself some credit.
Regardless like I said it was off the top of my head and simply meant to generate conversation and since the intent was to discuss martial arts mastery and skill.
You can’t convince me that being able to shatter steeldrop a building with even with slight superhuman strength half that of Black panther, but without super powers and only the application of his martial arts skill use his voice to kill a large group of opponents by exploding their skulls doesn’t demonstrate martial arts mastery. jean Grey herself said he was the most dangerous Inhuman but I’m not here to do a Karnak respect thread because like said I dont’t like the character. i do however at least try to know the characters before i trash them.
No amount of losses to significant characters takes away those other demonstrations of martial skill.

You said no is denying hsi ability well that’s what the thread was for, a list of the best martial artists, the thread doesn’t say who are the best fighters who won the most fights. Was simply curious about which characters whose on panel demonstrations of martial arts make them the best martial artists. Withnsome characters its impossible to extricate their martial arts skill from fighting because that’s all we get to see but with others we get to see their training allow them to do supernatural things such as Mantis gaining cosmic awareness and connecting with the universe, or Danny Rand, Fat Cobra, Steel Serpent, or others using their chi to perform countless feats such as crossing dimensional barriers or healing others. others its often overlooked because for example most people forget that Moondragon is not a mutant and does not possess telepathy as a power it is solely a result of her martial training under the Shao Lom monastery and so whenever she uses her telepathy she is demonstrating her martial arts training since she does not possess any powers, which makes it even more impressive whenhe enslaves a planet, kills Drax the destroyer with a single mind blast because she is not a natural telepath like Nate Grey. Emma Frost or Xavier.
Shroud for example is. Martial artist who uses his training to allow him to open portals to the dark dimension and developed a similar radar to Daredevil. Now he has been beaten by countless nobodies but being able to use your martial arts to open dimensions has to count for something more than punching people in the head when you are trying to identify significant martial artistry.

Iron Fist LOL.

He is the worst martial artist in fiction, or close.