Originally posted by Stoicmolecule man casually made it fall apart around the time of secret wars, back when Tigra was an avenger. Whatever happened to Tigra?
While reading the OP my very first thought on the subject was that America's Shield would win hands down. However, the comments that followed has left me wondering.The shield had been weakened over time. Evidence suggests that it's damage threshold was well above Galactus' power output during the first Secret Wars, as it was damaged by the Beyonder but not fully destroyed. It is later dismantled by a strike from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, which showed us it's full limit.
Later, the Serpent does the same thing, but he assaults it with magic. Because of the type of assault that he used against it, things become a bit murky. The shield was at that time weak against magic, however that doesn't mean that it was weak against non magical forces.
I do not believe that Galactus could destroy, or even damage the shield as it was written pre Secret Wars. Thor later rumples it, but again, King Thor was a magical being.
Since Adamantium should be vulnerable to the same forces that America's Shield was before the final upgrade, I'd vote that the shield would on average surpass the strength of Adamantium, but it wouldn't be by a lot.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
molecule man casually made it fall apart around the time of secret wars, back when Tigra was an avenger. Whatever happened to Tigra?
Owen's control over matter has always been well above cosmic characters like Galactus. His ability to manipulate matter is nearly as effective over matter as magic is, if not on par. Unless of course you believe that a Sky Father level power like the Serpent is on par with a guy that was capable of doing battle with the Beyonder at his most powerful?
As I mentioned, Kulan Gath just bit a chunk out of the shield during the latest issue of the Savage Avengers, which descrbed him to be omnipotent but not omniscient. Kulan Gath is a magical being.
Originally posted by Stoic
Owen's control over matter has always been well above cosmic characters like Galactus. His ability to manipulate matter is nearly as effective over matter as magic is, if not on par. Unless of course you believe that a Sky Father level power like the Serpent is on par with a guy that was capable of doing battle with the Beyonder at his most powerful?As I mentioned, Kulan Gath just bit a chunk out of the shield during the latest issue of the Savage Avengers, which descrbed him to be omnipotent but not omniscient. Kulan Gath is a magical being.
Yeah no shame in the shield failing against the likes of Owen, Beyonder-power or IG users.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao I suddenly wondered about what the shield's PAINT was made of.It's just normal titanium nitride. Considering some of the attacks it has gone through....
Also, how does it bounce? If it has vibranium in it which absorbs KE (so Cap doesn't get turned into paste), why does it suddenly bounce with perfect conservation of energy?
Also, did you guys know Vibranium isn't considered an element in Marvel?
Fun fact, the paint was completely removed in one issue.
Originally posted by StoicTo be fair, Owen deconstructed the shield in Avengers #215 (1982):
Owen's control over matter has always been well above cosmic characters like Galactus. His ability to manipulate matter is nearly as effective over matter as magic is, if not on par. Unless of course you believe that a Sky Father level power like the Serpent is on par with a guy that was capable of doing battle with the Beyonder at his most powerful?
A few years later, during Secret Wars #11 (1985), Doom would remove Owen's mental blocks, which allowed him to utilize the full breadth of his power:
https://ibb.co/Hqb6MLg
Point being, Owen wasn't yet at his SWII/Beyonder-contending levels when he mucked with the shield... And lip-service aside, I don't recall Owen preforming any feats that were above the Skyfather tier before Doom unlocked him.
The power has always been inside him, even if he didn't fully realize it.
Fun fact, Gambit has the same self-imposed limits regarding the organic matter. But unlike with Owen, unlocking his potential was only temporary.
Better question... was Owen the one who misplaced that one molecule of Cap's shield when recreating it, which many years later caused the vibranium cancer story arc? Or we don't really know?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWIndeed the power itself was always there, but it wasn't always fully accessible to Owen due to his own self-imposed mental limitations. My point was only that the Owen who deconstructed the shield was orders of magnitude weaker than he became after Doom removed the blocks -- IOW, SWII Owen >>>>>>>>>> Avengers #215 Owen. That's a factoid that I don't think Stoic took into consideration in his post.
The power has always been inside him, even if he didn't fully realize it.
We don't really know what level pre-SW-unlock Owen was operating at, but I don't recall him doing anything above the Skyfather tier until after Doom jailbroke him.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWOwen's fragile mental state has always been an issue for him -- even after Doom's unlock:
Fun fact, Gambit has the same self-imposed limits regarding the organic matter. But unlike with Owen, unlocking his potential was only temporary.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWSteve himself inadvertently caused the cancer in his shield:
Better question... was Owen the one who misplaced that one molecule of Cap's shield when recreating it, which many years later caused the vibranium cancer story arc? Or we don't really know?
It was a callback to when he wished his shield back together at the end of the original SW:
https://ibb.co/Yf7YMzZ
https://ibb.co/b64xpwq
^ Owen preformed that feat in SW #12:
https://ibb.co/gTJjC8B
...So after Doom removed his mental blocks.
As mentioned: lip-service aside, I am fairly certain that Owen never preformed any feats above the Skyfather tier prior to Doom's unlock in SW #11. He has always been touted to have massive potential ever since his first appearance in 1963, but potential power =/= actualized power... Especially when we're talking about a guy whose actualized power at any given time is fully dependent on his mental state.
Owen's mental blocks inhibited his power across the board.
Prior to the unlock, Owen didn't realize that he could manipulate organic molecules... Or recreate/reignite all the stars in a galaxy... Or repair multiversal damage... Or unleash blasts that could destroy billions of dimensions. Etc.
The unlock essentially took Owen from a second-rate goon that the F4 could handle, to a being who could rival Beyonder.
As mentioned above: Owen's actualized power at any given time has always been fully dependent on his mental state.
Be that as it may, back in those days power on Galactus' level wouldn't have destroyed that shield, and Galactus has nearly always been portrayed to be superior to Sky Fathers. My stance remains that the shield has been vulnerable to magical attacks, or magical characters. Non magical attacks that dismantled it came by way of molecular manipulation, or powers that ranged well beyond low to mid Cosmic characters on Galactus' level.