Cap's shield vs adamantium shield

Originally posted by Stoic
Be that as it may, back in those days power on Galactus' level wouldn't have destroyed that shield, and Galactus has nearly always been portrayed to be superior to Sky Fathers. My stance remains that the shield has been vulnerable to magical attacks, or magical characters. Non magical attacks that dismantled it came by way of molecular manipulation, or powers that ranged well beyond low to mid Cosmic characters on Galactus' level.

Originally posted by Stoic
Be that as it may, back in those days power on Galactus' level wouldn't have destroyed that shield, and Galactus has nearly always been portrayed to be superior to Sky Fathers. My stance remains that the shield has been vulnerable to magical attacks, or magical characters. Non magical attacks that dismantled it came by way of molecular manipulation, or powers that ranged well beyond low to mid Cosmic characters on Galactus' level.

Originally posted by Stoic
Owen's control over matter has always been well above cosmic characters like Galactus. His ability to manipulate matter is nearly as effective over matter as magic is, if not on par. Unless of course you believe that a Sky Father level power like the Serpent is on par with a guy that was capable of doing battle with the Beyonder at his most powerful?

It wasn't until Doom removed Owen's mental blocks a few years after the shield feat, that we saw the truth depths of his power.

Still, his power over inanimate matter... or at least specifically over simple objects with no advanced internal mechanisms (like Tony's suit), seemed absolute.

I mean, you can't find more indestructible items than Surfer's board, Mjolnir and Cap's shield.

And Owen was most impressed with the shield, confirming it as the top dog.

That was Owen's best feat up to that point, for sure.

Still nothing that should be beyond the ability of a Skyfather-ish matter manipulator, though... Unless I'm missing something?

If you want to be technical about it (and "technical" is your second name)...

Both FI Cul and Standoff Thor only succeeded in damaging the shield (and Thor fixed the dent later, but still).

Owen completely obliterated and recreated it from nothing.

Yes, it's way beyond anything the pussy skyfather tier has to offer.

Different abilities, though.

KT hit the shield with his hammer to physically dent it. Cul used rune magic to physically rip it apart. Owen used matter manipulation to disassemble it.

I am curious, though: are there any instances of the shield being able to resist explicit matter manipulation? If so, what were the level of the beings who tried, and failed? Because all jokes aside, I've always been curious what would stop any decently competent matter manipulator from doing what Owen did to the shield. /shrug

Also, is KT using a casual eye-beam to blow a hole through the shield considered canon?:
https://ibb.co/X2Vq7MD
Never been exactly sure where The Reigning fits into continuity.

Earth-3515:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-3515

Only the likes of Rage considered it canon... and he's quite dead, his corpse being fucked by Somalians.

Yes, KT hit it with his hammer, but I feel confident saying only the Odinforce allowed him to put a dent in the shield --- goes nicely with him fixing it... we only see him using the hammer, but he does mention it's only possible because of the power of Odin.

Shield sometimes no-sells Magneto's powers, other times it gets controlled by Lensherr much like every other metal.

Myron MacLain was unable to separate a single molecule for analysis.

Other than that, I don't remember it facing matter manip, no.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Earth-3515:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-3515

Only the likes of Rage considered it canon... and he's quite dead, his corpse being fucked by Somalians.

Yes, KT hit it with his hammer, but I feel confident saying only the Odinforce allowed him to put a dent in the shield --- goes nicely with him fixing it... we only see him using the hammer, but he does mention it's only possible because of the power of Odin.

Shield sometimes no-sells Magneto's powers, other times it gets controlled by Lensherr much like every other metal.

Myron MacLain was unable to separate a single molecule for analysis.

Other than that, I don't remember it facing matter manip, no.

Oh I have no doubt that KT was channeling the Odinforce on some level when he dented(and later repaired) the shield. Makes sense, as we know the shield's durability fails against Skyfather-level power.

That's what I thought, as I'd never seen an instance of the shield resisting explicit matter manipulation.

So this goes back to what I was saying about Owen's power: him using matter manipulation to disassemble the shield, while impressive in its own right, doesn't really seem to slingshot him above the Skyfather tier, imo. Jokes aside, I see no reason why a guy like Firestorm, for example, couldn't do the same basic thing to the shield(like transmute it into an inert gas or somesuch)..?

We see the same yellow bs energy when Thor hits the shield.

So yeah, hammer imbued with the Odinforce can do what the standard hammer can't.

Remember what happened to Stormbreaker?

Originally posted by Galan007

Oh I have no doubt that KT was channeling the Odinforce on some level when he dented(and later repaired) the shield. Makes sense, as we know the shield's durability fails against Skyfather-level power.

👆

Originally posted by Galan007
So this goes back to what I was saying about Owen's power: him using matter manipulation to disassemble the shield, while impressive in its own right, doesn't really seem to slingshot him above the Skyfather tier, imo. Jokes aside, I see no reason why a guy like Firestorm, for example, couldn't do the same basic thing to the shield(like transmute it into an inert gas or somesuch)..?

😂

I f*cking knew it would be about Firestorm. I f*cking knew it.

Just didn't think you would mention him so soon, lol.

Yeah, I see your point. Matter manipulators are tricky - when they appear in the story, their power rarely fails. So it's hard to argue the shield would withstand Firepower's power. Safe to say most writers even ignore the uru enhancements, as the scar was visible only in the final issue of Fear Itself.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ah yep. That link made me remember that The Reigning storyline is officially listed as an alternate universe in the OHOTMU as well:
https://ibb.co/nLGyYrX
https://ibb.co/phC4DKK
👆

Yes.

I might not be a fan of Superfags, but I can't say I'm not glad you DC guys helped me with my plan to eradicate the thorbags.

We are finally free from the decades of their lies.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
😂

I f*cking knew it would be about Firestorm. I f*cking knew it.

Just didn't think you would mention him so soon, lol.

Yeah, I see your point. Matter manipulators are tricky - when they appear in the story, their power rarely fails. So it's hard to argue the shield would withstand Firepower's power. Safe to say most writers even ignore the uru enhancements, as the scar was visible only in the final issue of Fear Itself.

Yeah, that's all I was really getting at. If the shield doesn't have some sort of defined, passive resistance to direct matter manipulation, then it's hard to say what 'level' of power would be required to disassemble it like that -- but most matter manipulators with decent competency *should* be capable of doing the same thing.

Surfer, for example, should also be able to do it... But in a comic, he'd just spam generic 'cosmic blasts', which the shield would soak.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Yes.

I might not be a fan of Superfags, but I can't say I'm not glad you DC guys helped me with my plan to eradicate the thorbags.

We are finally free from the decades of their lies.

Some links/quotes can be helpful

Captain America’s shield 🛡 is weighted to senses so it could block speed assaults. When wielding it has perceptive that respondes so that anything alive is stopped.

Originally posted by Galan007
😂 You should know by now that I will always work FS into a discussion whenever possible... Always. 😄

Yeah, that's all I was really getting at. If the shield doesn't have some sort of defined, passive resistance to direct matter manipulation, then it's hard to say what 'level' of power would be required to disassemble it like that -- but most matter manipulators with decent competency *should* be capable of doing the same thing.

Surfer, for example, should also be able to do it... But in a comic, he'd just spam generic 'cosmic blasts', which the shield would soak.

😛

It's worth noting that Surfer commented that Owen's power - even pre-unlock - was limitless and very much superior to his.

Well the shields 🛡 interaction is honed so that an honest throw can hit its mark. That’s what Captain America needs to teach to Hawkeye to give Hawkeye his performance 🎭 dream.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
😛

It's worth noting that Surfer commented that Owen's power - even pre-unlock - was limitless and very much superior to his.

That's why I keep referring back to potential power vs. actualized power... Because Owen's actualized power at any given time is completely dependent on his mental state.

Back when the mental blocks were in place, Owen was typically treated as a c-list dipshit, who the F4 could handle with mid-diff(his insane potential notwithstanding.) After Doom removed his mental blocks, however, Owen could finally access the depths of his potential, and became a multiversal powerhouse(second only to the Beyonder himself.)

IOW, Owen's raw potential doesn't change. His ability to access said potential is what fluctuates.

Mental block Owen should be valid for a meta tier BZ 😏

Pretty sure Sersi transmuted the shield during the Galactic Storm story line.
Captain America #399.
At least the implication is there, as it isn't seen again until after she changes the Avengers back.