Originally posted by SladerAcer
Only sbp expended most of his powers fighting tdk, so it doesn’t scale to monarch considering that is an old issue pre-death metal.
You don't seem to get it. TDK never had to allow the conflict that was fought as if he was a MMA combatant. He had the power to see millions of years into the future. Guys like him have the power to discern threats because they can peer into the future. What you read was PIS. TDK jobbed on nearly every possible level.
Originally posted by Stoic
You don't seem to get it. TDK never had to allow the conflict that was fought as if he was a MMA combatant. He had the power to see millions of years into the future. Guys like him have the power to discern threats because they can peer into the future. What you read was PIS. TDK jobbed on nearly every possible level.
Does that not fall under CIS? I mean, even herald level characters like Surfer and Flash can time travel, yet we don't argue that every single battle where they don't utilise this is PIS?
Originally posted by Stoic
You don't seem to get it. TDK never had to allow the conflict that was fought as if he was a MMA combatant. He had the power to see millions of years into the future. Guys like him have the power to discern threats because they can peer into the future. What you read was PIS. TDK jobbed on nearly every possible level.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does that not fall under CIS? I mean, even herald level characters like Surfer and Flash can time travel, yet we don't argue that every single battle where they don't utilise this is PIS?
Not really. It's PIS. Ridiculously plot driven PIS.
Originally posted by SladerAcer
Ur absolutely right, I don’t get it. Sbp stalemated TDK, ur excuse is that it is PIS and that TDK is a jobber. The comic clearrly shows sbp shattering universes, beating up TDK( who absorbed Perpetua powers) and sbp stalemated Diana who stalemated perpetua.
If TDK can see the attack well before it happens, and has the ability to alter time lines but did not, he suffered from being jobbed. No matter how you'd like to spin it, he shouldn't have been more than a hand wave away from losing. TDK did far worse against Prime than Monarch did. Should we conclude that Monarch would've beaten Perpetua who lost to TDK, and TDK lost to Prime? After all, Monarch as I stated did far better against Prime than TDK did. So, since TDK had a terribly poor showing against a Monarch level opponent, why does that translate to Prime being able to defeat the Beyonder who would literally be able to place Prime in a time loop, or reverse time to the point that Prime never existed? We saw his beginnings. There was nothing super about him when he was in that comic book store. You're argument is about how ridiculously stupid TDK was portrayed in that story. That line of reasoning doesn't somehow spread to the Beyonder.
Originally posted by Stoic
Not really. It's PIS. Ridiculously plot driven PIS.If TDK can see the attack well before it happens, and has the ability to alter time lines but did not, he suffered from being jobbed. No matter how you'd like to spin it, he shouldn't have been more than a hand wave away from losing. TDK did far worse against Prime than Monarch did. Should we conclude that Monarch would've beaten Perpetua who lost to TDK, and TDK lost to Prime? After all, Monarch as I stated did far better against Prime than TDK did. So, since TDK had a terribly poor showing against a Monarch level opponent, why does that translate to Prime being able to defeat the Beyonder who would literally be able to place Prime in a time loop, or reverse time to the point that Prime never existed? We saw his beginnings. There was nothing super about him when he was in that comic book store. You're argument is about how ridiculously stupid TDK was portrayed in that story. That line of reasoning doesn't somehow spread to the Beyonder.
Is it? Does TDK have a history of looking into all possible futures and selecting the right one then?
Otherwise, it's just arguing powerset. That's like abhi arguing that Superman throws the planet into the sun at the start of the fight, or me arguing Flash time travels at the start of the fight, etc etc.
Also someone like Extant also can see the future but the heroes beat him anyway....Or someone like ZH Parallax outright overpowered him.
https://ibb.co/3h4QKH2
It seems that when someone powerful enough, the future wouldnt be inevitable in comics. I mean, remember the comic where it stated Jon is faster than fate/inevitability?
This is different. He has the innate ability to know the future. It isn't like another character that actively runs, or picks shit up to throw. It was poor writing on the same level as a giant sand worm from Dune appearing out of nowhere and swallowing a guy that could effortlessly throw it several light years in distance. Poor writing. You can stop with the contrary shit at any time now. Or, put the Hat on.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Also someone like Extant also can see the future but the heroes beat him anyway....Or someone like ZH Parallax outright overpowered him.
https://ibb.co/3h4QKH2It seems that when someone powerful enough, the future wouldnt be inevitable in comics. I mean, remember the comic where it stated Jon is faster than fate/inevitability?
Is Extant anywhere near as powerful as TDK? If not, your entire stance is non sequitur. Prime was challenged by far less than TDK was advertised to be. It was shitty writing. The Beyonder and any other near omnipotent should never be lumped in together with TDK, especially when you take into account that he's actually a twisted version of Bruce Wayne. It was absolute bullshit, okay.
Originally posted by Stoic
Not really. It's PIS. Ridiculously plot driven PIS.If TDK can see the attack well before it happens, and has the ability to alter time lines but did not, he suffered from being jobbed. No matter how you'd like to spin it, he shouldn't have been more than a hand wave away from losing. TDK did far worse against Prime than Monarch did. Should we conclude that Monarch would've beaten Perpetua who lost to TDK, and TDK lost to Prime? After all, Monarch as I stated did far better against Prime than TDK did. So, since TDK had a terribly poor showing against a Monarch level opponent, why does that translate to Prime being able to defeat the Beyonder who would literally be able to place Prime in a time loop, or reverse time to the point that Prime never existed? We saw his beginnings. There was nothing super about him when he was in that comic book store. You're argument is about how ridiculously stupid TDK was portrayed in that story. That line of reasoning doesn't somehow spread to the Beyonder.
TDK also could not catch Wally, Jay, Barry in a race. Because they at the moment were faster than TDK, Wally outraced him. Yes, I am aware he had a fraction of connective energy from Dr.m, which eventually ended up in the hands of TDK but by strategic maneuvers, not because of speed. TDK was unaware of metrons or the chroniclers presence while fighting perpetua and his powers were not automative. So if TDK could not beat sbp, it is reasonable to state that he was powerful enough to match any abilities TDK under his disposal. Even for the moment. Which is what I am going with because that is what was produced in canon comic. Monarch and this version of prime have no bases to scale off of. Prime later lost most of his powers after his fight with TDK, so the prime monarch fought was isn’t him at full power.
Originally posted by Stoic
This is different. He has the innate ability to know the future. It isn't like another character that actively runs, or picks shit up to throw. It was poor writing on the same level as a giant sand worm from Dune appearing out of nowhere and swallowing a guy that could effortlessly throw it several light years in distance. Poor writing. You can stop with the contrary shit at any time now. Or, put the Hat on.
So Surfer having the Power Cosmic and cosmic senses etc counts for naught then?
Seems rather.... hypocritical of you. The power cosmic can also see into the future etc, yet you don't say every fight that Surfer has where he's not looking into the future is PIS, do you?
Or maybe you are. I don't know, I can't think as low as you.
By the by, Wally is fast enough to think faster than a sun-sized supercomputer (Solaris), but I guess you also think every fight he has, he should be doing the same, right?
And Superman is fast enough to read every medical text ever published (and remember it), so in any fight where he doesn't think on this level, it must be PIS, right?
I mean, I can get behind that logic. If you do too, that's all good. Wouldn't want to be contrary now, would we?
Originally posted by Stoic
Is Extant anywhere near as powerful as TDK? If not, your entire stance is non sequitur. Prime was challenged by far less than TDK was advertised to be. It was shitty writing. The Beyonder and any other near omnipotent should never be lumped in together with TDK, especially when you take into account that he's actually a twisted version of Bruce Wayne. It was absolute bullshit, okay.
SBP and DK in that story were definitely at the same ballpark in terms of power levels. Because the fact SBP not only did manage hurt DK, but also beat him. Thus, It can easily be argued A. SBP overcame the precog power due to his sheer power. B. DK wouldnt normally use said ability in a fight
Originally posted by zopzop
SBP is cool and all but he's not beating the Beyonder. He'd destroy the Maker version though.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Beyonder
Sure, There is a really really high showing( beating DK) but there are other showings that lower SBP's maximum and give us the view of his average.