Originally posted by cdtmI'm sorry to disagree but if you focus on all the X-men movies with Logan in them, you'll notice the stories focus on him much more than the other characters, which speaks to his general popularity.
Wolverine popularity in 90's a myth.Ia Jane Thor popular despite being pushed everywhere? Is sjw pandering popular?
Wolverine was pushed only because powerful writers like Claremont had to be appeased, no fan liked him. Cyclops was way more popular, Hulk was infinitely more popular
Originally posted by lawest9
I'm sorry to disagree but if you focus on all the X-men movies with Logan in them, you'll notice the stories focus on him much more than the other characters, which speaks to his general popularity.
That was thanks to Hugh Jackman though. 🙂
In 2000. Early 90's Wolverine had his fans, but was far from the most popular X character in particular, much less most popular Marvel character in general. Thor was FAR more popular. Hulk was far far FAR more popular.
Heck, Thanos was one of the most popular Marvel characters ever, and he wasn't pasted across every magazine cover.
I don't buy the idea Wolverine was pushed because he was popular. That isn't really how the industry works, they try and MAKE something stick with constant exposure, not push something everyone gives a shite about. Case in point Captain Marvel, or the Wakanda stick girls.
Originally posted by cdtmI agree with you where Carol Danvers ( I refuse to call her "captain marvel" ) and BP are concerned, their popularity are due strictly to the cinema, but Logan's popularity was already in existence with die hard and casual comic book fans and readers.
That was thanks to Hugh Jackman though. 🙂In 2000. Early 90's Wolverine had his fans, but was far from the most popular X character in particular, much less most popular Marvel character in general. Thor was FAR more popular. Hulk was far far FAR more popular.
Heck, Thanos was one of the most popular Marvel characters ever, and he wasn't pasted across every magazine cover.
I don't buy the idea Wolverine was pushed because he was popular. That isn't really how the industry works, they try and MAKE something stick with constant exposure, not push something everyone gives a shite about. Case in point Captain Marvel, or the Wakanda stick girls.
Remember that Wolvie already had his own separate comicbook title for years before any other X-men character did.
Originally posted by cdtm
Early 90's Wolverine had his fans, but was far from the most popular X character in particular, much less most popular Marvel character in general. Thor was FAR more popular. [/B]
Cdtm is clueless about comics, despite spending a decade and a half with us.
But right now, he's just trolling. Been that way since the first episode of Dragon Ball Super was released --- that event has destroyed 99.99% of his brain matter, and he was never exactly an Einstein guy to begin with.
Also, he's butthurt about Iron Fist never being popular, neither as a comic book character nor as a TV show one 😛
Originally posted by cdtm
That was thanks to Hugh Jackman though. 🙂In 2000. Early 90's Wolverine had his fans, but was far from the most popular X character in particular, much less most popular Marvel character in general. Thor was FAR more popular. Hulk was far far FAR more popular.
Heck, Thanos was one of the most popular Marvel characters ever, and he wasn't pasted across every magazine cover.
I don't buy the idea Wolverine was pushed because he was popular. That isn't really how the industry works, they try and MAKE something stick with constant exposure, not push something everyone gives a shite about. Case in point Captain Marvel, or the Wakanda stick girls.
I was in primary school from the late eighties to the mid-nineties. Among any of the people that watched cartoons or read comics, it was either Wolverine or Batman. By far.
Guys like Hulk were popular too, but every kid in the playground wanted to be wolverine more than anything else.
tf are you talking about.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not covering up anything. WWH failed to overpower Juggernaut. This is a fact. Juggernaut didn't use his enchantment until he started pushing Hulk back. As has been explained the enchantment only kicks in once Juggernaut builds forward momentum, which he didn't have until he overpowered Hulk. This is also a fact. Saying that he's Wonder Man level when he has beat the snot out of Professor Hulk and Thor is absolutely ridiculous.
The toughness is an innate ability that he receives from the enchantment. He is much tougher than the mutants that the Hulk easily dispatched. In order for the Hulk to defeat him he'd have to go beyond what was shown in that book. The results would have killed many if not all of the mutants at the site of the conflict. Since he wasn't actually there to capture anyone other than Xavier he dealt with the Juggernaut quickly instead of using the amount of power that it would've taken to defeat Cain. I keep repeating this, but you don't seem to be able to comprehend it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Once more:Hulk wasn't out to kill, right? But there are levels to this shit, lol. He wasn't trying to kill any of THESE guys - but he was one-shotting them left right and center:
His friends, his family - one shotted (maybe 2 for Doc, if we are generous).
So Stoic and Carv, your laughable clinging to 'Oh but Hulk does not kill!!111!' is stupid. [b]NO-ONE SAID HE HAD TO KILL JUGGERNAUT, lol.
Next, the 'argument' that he wasn't there to fight the mutants. OK. Maybe that was the case when he first arrived - but at the beginning of issue 2, that was not the case any more:
And he was perfectly happy to go after and fight Juggernaut and three shot him:
So arguing he wasn't there to fight, falls over as an argument. Saying he held back so as to not kill, is a red herring. I could get into a fight with a pro boxer, who isn't out to kill me - doesn't mean he can't oneshot KO me, right? Or an MMA fighter - just because he is holding back to not kill me, doesn't mean he can't break my arms and legs, right?
Or are you guys arguing that in an MMA match, a trained expert fighter won't break my arms and legs and can't KO me because they are holding back, lmao.
See my scan. He was originally there for Xavier - but then, he was going to make ALL of them pay (emphasis NOT mine).
As for the enchantment, what - are you now arguing that Cain is immune to damage? [/B]
Cain is immune to a certain amount of damage yes. The amount that the Hulk was dealing wasn't nearly enough to defeat Cain. If he dialed it up, he would've done far more than cripple a few mutants, he would've killed them. You're prentending to have a difficult time understanding that this particular Hulk persona had no limit to his strength, while knowing full well that he far surpassed this level within the arc. He later eclipses that level during HOTM. He didn't need Cain if he wanted to destroy the Xavier institute, he never even had to chase down any of the characters that took it upon themselves to exile him. He could've landed on Earth, and destroyed it without a word. When was Cain ever capable of destroying a planet? When did Cain ever physically shift a continent? Can he lift a state? A city? A town? He wasn't even able to immediately escape the collapse of an ancient temple, but you guys think that he's a match for a guy that can destroy a planet without even directly hitting it. The Hulk has dynamic strength. His toughness scales up and down based on his strength level. This was on panel. So pardon me for being, what did you call me? Laughable? But, everything that I've stated was based on the story. So, why don't you skip the clown shoes routine, and show me Cain's best lifting feat. Just make sure that you account for his enchanted toughness, and his ability to become unstoppable due to the enchantment. Toughness does not mean that he's the strongest, it just means that he's extremely durable.
Originally posted by Stoic
The toughness is an innate ability that he receives from the enchantment. He is much tougher than the mutants that the Hulk easily dispatched. In order for the Hulk to defeat him he'd have to go beyond what was shown in that book. The results would have killed many if not all of the mutants at the site of the conflict. Since he wasn't actually there to capture anyone other than Xavier he dealt with the Juggernaut quickly instead of using the amount of power that it would've taken to defeat Cain. I keep repeating this, but you don't seem to be able to comprehend it.Cain is immune to a certain amount of damage yes. The amount that the Hulk was dealing wasn't nearly enough to defeat Cain. If he dialed it up, he would've done far more than cripple a few mutants, he would've killed them. You're prentending to have a difficult time understanding that this particular Hulk persona had no limit to his strength, while knowing full well that he far surpassed this level within the arc. He later eclipses that level during HOTM. He didn't need Cain if he wanted to destroy the Xavier institute, he never even had to chase down any of the characters that took it upon themselves to exile him. He could've landed on Earth, and destroyed it without a word. When was Cain ever capable of destroying a planet? When did Cain ever physically shift a continent? Can he lift a state? A city? A town? He wasn't even able to immediately escape the collapse of an ancient temple, but you guys think that he's a match for a guy that can destroy a planet without even directly hitting it. The Hulk has dynamic strength. His toughness scales up and down based on his strength level. This was on panel. So pardon me for being, what did you call me? Laughable? But, everything that I've stated was based on the story. So, why don't you skip the clown shoes routine, and show me Cain's best lifting feat. Just make sure that you account for his enchanted toughness, and his ability to become unstoppable due to the enchantment. Toughness does not mean that he's the strongest, it just means that he's extremely durable.
That's the point. WWH couldn't output enough to deal with Cain, despite being able to output enough to deal with everyone else.
HOWEVER, Cain was NOT immune to WWH:
But the point being, he was unable to overpower Cain when they locked hands. Unable to cripple him - and it wasn't due to toughness (or at least, not solely) as Hulk was perfectly able to damage him with punches.
The unstoppable nature only works when he is charging. As I have shown. No charging (like, say, when he is locked up), no unstoppable enchantment.
So, what do we have? A Hulk who is perfectly capable of damaging a full powered Juggy with punches, but is unable to to damage when Juggy is pushing back.
Ergo, strength.
As for the WBH 'feat', I have shown that matter in the Dark Dimension is weaker than in 616, plus it was a shared feat, so....moot. A tangent, anyway, as that is not the main point.
Originally posted by Stoic
The toughness is an innate ability that he receives from the enchantment. He is much tougher than the mutants that the Hulk easily dispatched. In order for the Hulk to defeat him he'd have to go beyond what was shown in that book. The results would have killed many if not all of the mutants at the site of the conflict. Since he wasn't actually there to capture anyone other than Xavier he dealt with the Juggernaut quickly instead of using the amount of power that it would've taken to defeat Cain. I keep repeating this, but you don't seem to be able to comprehend it.
You're the one with comprehension problems. I'm talking about strength, you keep talking about toughness. Juggernaut's durability is not in question here, nor is his physical strength tied to his unstopablity or invulnerability enchantments. We're talking about the moment when Juggernaut and Hulk locked up and Banner was unable to overpower Juggernaut. In fact, Hulk was the one, who was being pushed back. Like you said, Hulk was in a rush to get to Charles, if he was capable of overpowering Cain and throwing him aside, he would have done it. Instead, he had to resort to using Juggernaut's unstopability to BFR him.
Originally posted by Psychotron
You're the one with comprehension problems. I'm talking about strength, you keep talking about toughness. Juggernaut's durability is not in question here, nor is his physical strength tied to his unstopablity or invulnerability enchantments. We're talking about the moment when Juggernaut and Hulk locked up and Banner was [B]unable to overpower Juggernaut. In fact, Hulk was the one, who was being pushed back. Like you said, Hulk was in a rush to get to Charles, if he was capable of overpowering Cain and throwing him aside, he would have done it. Instead, he had to resort to using Juggernaut's unstopability to BFR him. [/B]
Well said.
And on an off topic note, Juggernaut is one of the most inspirational villians because he wasn't born lucky like his step brother Xavier and his band of mutants. He's just a normal everyman who gained powers rivaling or strongest beings on Earth.
That's why I hated Colossonaught, he already had his mutant armor, it's like the rich blue blood stealing lottery winnings from the blue collar common folk.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well said.And on an off topic note, Juggernaut is one of the most inspirational villians because he wasn't born lucky like his step brother Xavier and his band of mutants. He's just a normal everyman who gained powers rivaling or strongest beings on Earth.
That's why I hated Colossonaught, he already had his mutant armor, it's like the rich blue blood stealing lottery winnings from the blue collar common folk.
Born lucky? Born lucky?
Dark post is all wrong. He didn't one, two or three shot Colossus. He didn't one shot Guildo which means that Dark statement about one shotting everyone left and right is a bold face lie.
His other lie, small Juggernaut teleported to WWH and approached HIM first and Hulk dropped him. Full powered Juggernaut egged Hulk on and they charged each other which again means, Dark statement is a bold face lie. He is going to mention "why didn't Hulk cripple Juggernaut". He didn't need to, he bfred him. Why didn't Hulk cripple Herc, Ghostrider, Thing, Human Torch? He beat all of these people differently. He doesn't need to beat everyone the same way (common sense 101).
Conclusion, since Hulk didn't one shot Colossus or Juggernaut, in Darks world, they are equal, all of them. Question, is Black Adam and Superman equals? What about Superman and Wonder Woman? Let me know if you need to see fights resembling what is being said here.