Originally posted by cdtm
So you believe speech does harm than. Ok.That's your opinion, I do not share it. And I absolutely do not think speech should be restricted based such a subjective concept. I DO think bad actors can and WILL abuse this concept to restrict political opposition.
This is why anti-defamation laws exist, dude. If I convince the public you have 8-year kids locked in your sex dungeon, this will have material effects on your life.
Your problem is that you've reduced the definition of "speech" down to your own personal, limited view of it. You see speech as only "harmless criticism of a given topic."
Speech encompasses much more than that.
Originally posted by cdtm
I'd have taken offense at your unprovoked insult, until this.You are "the useful idiot" anti commies talk about.
You propped up false martyrs like Elon and Zuckerberg, with a factually incorrect claim that their free speech rights were violated. I don't think you understand what "useful idiot" means.
Wake up homie. I'm trying to help you.
Originally posted by Smurph
Cdtm is an idiot, but not useful.Free speech.
Pretty sure this is normal speech. 😛
You read Orwell, haven't you? Taken courses in philosophy or political science asking "who gets to decide?"
I'm not saying anything new here. Whirl openly says he thinks some people need to be shielded from some words, and Style is talking about context and real harm from words.
I mean, forget about the kmc drama shite, I want to know what 1984 even meant to you? Are you really ok with curtailed speech based on WHO decides?
Can't you see how that kind of trust can be abused?
"...the only regime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist regime."
- George Orwell
Neither here nor there, but it's definitely a bit weird that right-wingers invoke Orwell so often, considering the dude was an atheist socialist.
We did get some memes out of it at least.
Originally posted by StyleTimeThe right guy looks homeless and they are unironically communist christians.
"...the only regime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist regime."- George Orwell
Neither here nor there, but it's definitely a bit weird that right-wingers invoke Orwell so often, considering the dude was an atheist socialist.
We did get some memes out of it at least.
Originally posted by StyleTime
...it's not a belief. Speech, undoubtedly, can cause harm.This is why anti-defamation laws exist, dude. If I convince the public you have 8-year kids locked in your sex dungeon, this will have material effects on your life.
Your problem is that you've reduced the definition of "speech" down to your own personal, limited view of it. You see speech as only "harmless criticism of a given topic."
Speech encompasses much more than that.
Yes, you took so little offense that you felt the need to retaliate with one of your own.
You propped up false martyrs like Elon and Zuckerberg, with a factually incorrect claim that their free speech rights were violated. I don't think you understand what "useful idiot" means.
Wake up homie. I'm trying to help you.
So you're a hypocrite than.
I've been ostracized on KMC all year. You're participating by deliberately condescending at me, refusing to address any decentpoints I do make, and circle jerking with Stilt and Smurph.
Which is fine. I know I'm not wanted on KMC anymore, and I refuse to leave because I truly believe I have done nothing wrong.
I can also simply choose not to care what you think of me personally.
So pardon me for calling bullshit on your stance, as you ignore the shit storm I deal with every day here. Hypocrite.
Originally posted by cdtm
So you're a hypocrite than.I've been ostracized on KMC all year. You're participating by deliberately condescending at me, refusing to address any decentpoints I do make, and circle jerking with Stilt and Smurph.
Which is fine. I know I'm not wanted on KMC anymore, and I refuse to leave because I truly believe I have done nothing wrong.
I can also simply choose not to care what you think of me personally.
So pardon me for calling bullshit on your stance, as you ignore the shit storm I deal with every day here. Hypocrite.
I've patiently engaged with you more than possibly any active user on this site. In fact, people accuse me of being too charitable to you.
I've entertained your points, including the troll attempts you make in bad faith. You're merely upset that your points are often, demonstrably, wrong. It's no more condescending than you trying to smuggle in dishonest statements under our noses.
I've never called for you to leave, personally. By all means, stay. I still think you're just playing a character, and aren't actually this far gone tbh. Every so often, you say something fairly sensible, which gives me hope for the future.
Originally posted by StyleTimeYes, he is playing a character and as you say much of it is in bad faith. He is in truth not as extreme as many "real" people we have had here. I got bored with the banality some time ago and shoved him on ignore. We have all seen it or even in some cases done this kind of trolling. Most of us are too old for that shit.
Not even close.I've patiently engaged with you more than possibly any active user on this site. In fact, people accuse me of being too charitable to you.
I've entertained your points, including the troll attempts you make in bad faith. You're merely upset that your points are often, demonstrably, wrong. It's no more condescending than you trying to smuggle in dishonest statements under our noses.
I've never called for you to leave, personally. By all means, stay. I still think you're just playing a character, and aren't actually this far gone tbh. Every so often, you say something fairly sensible, which gives me hope for the future.
Originally posted by cdtmOh my God, do something else with your day. Like holy shit, do you have absolutely no life?
So you're a hypocrite than.I've been ostracized on KMC all year. You're participating by deliberately condescending at me, refusing to address any decentpoints I do make, and circle jerking with Stilt and Smurph.
Which is fine. I know I'm not wanted on KMC anymore, and I refuse to leave because I truly believe I have done nothing wrong.
I can also simply choose not to care what you think of me personally.
So pardon me for calling bullshit on your stance, as you ignore the shit storm I deal with every day here. Hypocrite.
Originally posted by Smurph
👆One of the bottom lines that I come back to in thinking about the thread is that "free speech" is a right that exists between you and your govt (depending on where you live). It's not a right that exists between you and the world. It's not like a property right in that way.
So a tweet can at once be "free" in the sense of being protected from government overreach, and not "free" in the sense that Elon could restrict it anyways.
Schrodinger's free speech.
I like this take. Have to be able to criticise government control. But in terms of the rest of the world, it's like you're not really free to come to me and insult my Mum. I mean you are, but maybe don't whine after if I deck you for it shrug
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The argument I have never got that is propagated on the internet is the concept of speech without consequence.Why am I a snowflake if I find racism and misogyny offensive and would punch someone in the face who propagated those ideas to my face if I told them I didn't like it?
👆
I would say in terms of us with the rest of the world, that we should all be able to intellectually debate pretty much any stance though.
The freedom of speech without consequences isn't a thing. Freedom of speech is a government protected right, but it doesn't protect you from other individuals if you say stupid shit. For instance, you can watch porn at the library, because of freedom of speech, but do it near my daughter, and I'm going to hurt you. You might use your government given rights right into some real life consequences, in other words.
I didn't ask what "right wingers" thought of Orwell. I asked what you think of Orwell.
And now I'm done asking. It's your prerogative to answer or not, as it is mine to stop wasting my time.
I tried. Maybe the truth is, you can't answer because you have no moral framework at all.
Or not. I won't check this thread again to find out.
Originally posted by cdtm
I didn't ask what "right wingers" thought of Orwell. I asked what you think of Orwell.I tried. Maybe the truth is, you can't answer because you have no moral framework at all.
I've explained my thoughts on that, repeatedly. You are unwilling, or unable, to understand that though. It's similar to your lack of understanding around the issue of protected speech.
Originally posted by cdtm
Or not. I won't check this thread again to find out.
You still make my heart flutter, bae. 😍