Originally posted by Psychotron
Pretty much any big MCU fight. It's always shot like a tv movie. At least Snyder knew how to direct action. The Zod vs Superman fight feels so much more massive than anything in the MCU.
I'd argue that Snyder knew how to shoot action but he didn't know how to direct it. As in he made beautifully shot and stylized action pieces but with sh!t choreography and non-existent tension.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'd argue that Snyder knew how to shoot action but he didn't know how to direct it. As in he made beautifully shot and stylized action pieces but with sh!t choreography and non-existent tension.
Yeah, not like the tension-filled MCU scenes, where everything is constantly interrupted by jokes and quips.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
At absolute best you're just arguing that they're equally trash.
MOS mogs anything in the MCU. Compare the Kryptonian battle to Hulk vs Thor or Hulk vs Thanos. MOS actually feels like two godlike beings battling. The city crumbles around them as a side effect of their fight. Meanwhile, Thor gets knocked out by a taser. Hulk and Thanos barely wreck half a room in a ship.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, not like the tension-filled MCU scenes, where everything is constantly interrupted by jokes and quips.
MCU fights scenes have very dull visuals and palette, have a number of CGI issues, tend to be shot from weird angles and use some degree of that shaky-cam nonsense. But they have pretty great choreography and yes, they handle tension and flow pretty well. The jokes are part of that flow. Most impressive are how the MCU handles massive group fight sequences, something that neither Fox nor DC has been able to match.
In comparison, most Snyder fight scenes are shot with incredible visuals. Nice, wide-angled shots, crisp movements, great color palette and he's really the only director I know who's been able to portray power jumping decently without making it look cartoony. On the other hand, his fight choreography mostly boils down to throwing haymakers and tackling each other. It's like the choreography a 7 year old might have while playing with his action figures.
Snyder also has an over-reliance on slow motion which gets exhausting after a time. Plus, while he portrays his fight scenes in a serious tone, there's generally very little flow or build-up to the sequence so there isn't a lot of tension.
Originally posted by FrothByte
MCU fights scenes have very dull visuals and palette, have a number of CGI issues, tend to be shot from weird angles and use some degree of that shaky-cam nonsense. But they have pretty great choreography and yes, they handle tension and flow pretty well. The jokes are part of that flow. Most impressive are how the MCU handles massive group fight sequences, something that neither Fox nor DC has been able to match.In comparison, most Snyder fight scenes are shot with incredible visuals. Nice, wide-angled shots, crisp movements, great color palette and he's really the only director I know who's been able to portray power jumping decently without making it look cartoony. On the other hand, his fight choreography mostly boils down to throwing haymakers and tackling each other. It's like the choreography a 7 year old might have while playing with his action figures.
Snyder also has an over-reliance on slow motion which gets exhausting after a time. Plus, while he portrays his fight scenes in a serious tone, there's generally very little flow or build-up to the sequence so there isn't a lot of tension.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The only MCU movie that stood out with good choreography was The Winter Soldier. As for group fights, the Civil War airport was comically bad IMO.
Complaining about humor in an action movie is also pretty silly when interjecting humor into action sequences is a staple of action adventure films. This fight is considered to be one of the greatest action sequences in film history:
No one in their right mind would say that this fight is bad because halfway through it Jackie Chan starts break dancing and tickling the other fighter.
Originally posted by PsychotronThanos vs Iron Man/Spider Man/Strange etc was fine. The fight scenes in Eternals were also really well coordinated.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The only MCU movie that stood out with good choreography was The Winter Soldier. As for group fights, the Civil War airport was comically bad IMO.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The only MCU movie that stood out with good choreography was The Winter Soldier. As for group fights, the Civil War airport was comically bad IMO.
Compare the 3-way fight between Aquaman, Diana and Steppenwolf in JL to the 3-way fight between Cap, Bucky and Ironman. There's a massive disparity in choreography there.
Even some of the less spectacular fights like Ironman vs. Thor or Ironman vs. Hulk had a lot more choreography to it than say Superman vs. Zod.
You may think the airport fight was bad but it was the best massive group fight we've ever seen in a superhero movie before... up until it was topped by Infinity War later on.
Other stand out fights are the waterfall fights in Black Panther, pretty much any fight in CATWS, most of the fights in AoU and Civil War, majority of the fights in Infinity War especially the battle on Titan, etc.
EDIT: I will say though that Snyder has a far better portrayal of physics in fight scenes. The way he's able to showcase the speed, force and impact of movements is 2nd to none. The MCU is great with their street-level characters but movements get a bit cartoony when they get to their more superpowered characters.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Complaining about humor in an action movie is also pretty silly when interjecting humor into action sequences is a staple of action adventure films.
Well, I don't consider comic book movies as action movies. Second, humor is has its place, but what the MCU does is too much. Every big moment and every dramatic scene is immediately deflated by some quip. Star Wars is a light-hearted adventure movie, but it knew when to take itself seriously and when not to. Imagine if someone quipped after the Empire blew up the Death Star or after Ben died.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Compare the 3-way fight between Aquaman, Diana and Steppenwolf in JL to the 3-way fight between Cap, Bucky and Ironman. There's a massive disparity in choreography there.Even some of the less spectacular fights like Ironman vs. Thor or Ironman vs. Hulk had a lot more choreography to it than say Superman vs. Zod.
You may think the airport fight was bad but it was the best massive group fight we've ever seen in a superhero movie before... up until it was topped by Infinity War later on.
Other stand out fights are the waterfall fights in Black Panther, pretty much any fight in CATWS, most of the fights in AoU and Civil War, majority of the fights in Infinity War especially the battle on Titan, etc.
EDIT: I will say though that Snyder has a far better portrayal of physics in fight scenes. The way he's able to showcase the speed, force and impact of movements is 2nd to none. The MCU is great with their street-level characters but movements get a bit cartoony when they get to their more superpowered characters.
The Civil War fight, seriously? Iron Man had to job so MUCH for that fight to last more than 5 seconds. It was embarrassing. That's another thing. The MCU's power levels are all over the place. Snyder was consistent.
I feel like much of Captain America movies are just overchoreographed and they look like dances after a certain point. That's okay for street level guys, but I don't think a fight between people, who can lift supertankers should fight like that.
Originally posted by Psychotron
The Civil War fight, seriously? Iron Man had to job so MUCH for that fight to last more than 5 seconds. It was embarrassing. That's another thing. The MCU's power levels are all over the place. Snyder was consistent.I feel like much of Captain America movies are just overchoreographed and they look like dances after a certain point. That's okay for street level guys, but I don't think a fight between people, who can lift supertankers should fight like that.
Yes, there's quite a bit of power inconsistencies within the MCU, especially since the Russo era, but that's not the same thing as having bad choreography. Besides, Snyder isn't exactly great with consistency either. I mean, Zod was supposedly trained and bred as a soldier since birth, yet he was throwing haymakers and shoulder tackles with as little finesse as a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his life.
Heck, Batman was fast enough to evade attacks from Doomsday. Aquaman was fast enough to keep up with Steppenwolf who was fast enough to keep up with Diana.
Look man, I'm not trying to bash Snyder here. I listed a whole bunch of stuff that he does better action-wise than any MCU director. But his fight choreography just plain sucks. He pulls it off because his fight cinematography is superb, and that's what you're seeing. Because he makes even bad choreography look beautiful. You're getting dazzled by his style to the point where you're unable to notice his lack of substance.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, there's quite a bit of power inconsistencies within the MCU, especially since the Russo era, but that's not the same thing as having bad choreography. Besides, Snyder isn't exactly great with consistency either. I mean, Zod was supposedly trained and bred as a soldier since birth, yet he was throwing haymakers and shoulder tackles with as little finesse as a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his life.Heck, Batman was fast enough to evade attacks from Doomsday. Aquaman was fast enough to keep up with Steppenwolf who was fast enough to keep up with Diana.
Look man, I'm not trying to bash Snyder here. I listed a whole bunch of stuff that he does better action-wise than any MCU director. But his fight choreography just plain sucks. He pulls it off because his fight cinematography is superb, and that's what you're seeing. Because he makes even bad choreography look beautiful. You're getting dazzled by his style to the point where you're unable to notice his lack of substance.
Zod started fighting sloppy once he lost the chancer to rebuild Krypton. This is character development not bad choreography
Batman wasn't so much fast enough to evade Doomsday he just had expert timing which comes from a lifetime of martial arts training
Originally posted by relentless1
Zod started fighting sloppy once he lost the chancer to rebuild Krypton. This is character development not bad choreographyBatman wasn't so much fast enough to evade Doomsday he just had expert timing which comes from a lifetime of martial arts training
Meh, you're making that sh*t up. Nowhere in the movie was this stated. Faora certainly didn't look sloppy even though she was part of Zod's team.
Besides, fighting skills are embedded into muscle memory. As long as Zod decides to fight (which he did) we should have at least seen a skill discrepancy between himself and a farm boy who's never been in a fight in his life.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, I don't consider comic book movies as action movies. Second, humor is has its place, but what the MCU does is too much. Every big moment and every dramatic scene is immediately deflated by some quip. Star Wars is a light-hearted adventure movie, but it knew when to take itself seriously and when not to. Imagine if someone quipped after the Empire blew up the Death Star or after Ben died.The Civil War fight, seriously? Iron Man had to job so MUCH for that fight to last more than 5 seconds. It was embarrassing. That's another thing. The MCU's power levels are all over the place. Snyder was consistent.
I feel like much of Captain America movies are just overchoreographed and they look like dances after a certain point. That's okay for street level guys, but I don't think a fight between people, who can lift supertankers should fight like that.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, I don't consider comic book movies as action movies. Second, humor is has its place, but what the MCU does is too much. Every big moment and every dramatic scene is immediately deflated by some quip. Star Wars is a light-hearted adventure movie, but it knew when to take itself seriously and when not to. Imagine if someone quipped after the Empire blew up the Death Star or after Ben died.The Civil War fight, seriously? Iron Man had to job so MUCH for that fight to last more than 5 seconds. It was embarrassing. That's another thing. The MCU's power levels are all over the place. Snyder was consistent.
I feel like much of Captain America movies are just overchoreographed and they look like dances after a certain point. That's okay for street level guys, but I don't think a fight between people, who can lift supertankers should fight like that.