Originally posted by xPRIMEx
So we’re just going to ignore the context? Kenobi beat a pre prime conflicted Vader. Palpatine confirms that Vader’s feelings weakened him. And this was pre prime Vader. Prime, non conflicted ROTJ Vader is still far superior.
There is no context. You're basing this on a line from Sidious, which is not supported by what's on the screen. Vader had some of his best Force feats in this very show.
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
mean obviously Vader was still very powerful, but ROTJ is his prime. This is only 10 years after ROTS. He’s not 100% Vader at this point.
I agree that ROTJ should be his peak, but let's not pretend that Obi-Wan, who hadn't touched a lightsaber or used the Force in a decade, was anywhere near his own prime either. And if we're talking about emotional conflict, Obi-Wan was extremely affected to the point where he broke down in tears and felt he had to apologize to Anakin at the end.
Originally posted by Psychotron
There is no context. You're basing this on a line from Sidious, which is not supported by what's on the screen. Vader had some of his best Force feats in this very show.
in episode 5 vader is pretty clearly shown failing due to his history with kenobi. Not sure why that wouldn't be a factor in episode 6 and sidious pretty much confirms it. It doesn't need to be explicitly stated to be concluded based on the text.
Vader having good force feats is not mutually exclusive with him being hampered in some way
Originally posted by Psychotron
Buffs are external. Kenobi was fighting at his best with no external help.
Originally posted by playa1258
Kenobi wasn't buffed he is just that powerful. It's about time people accept it.
Point is there was clearly a difference in performance before and after the Leia focus came into play.
And lets not fool ourselves, this is by far the most powerful Kenobi has ever been portrayed. And the only explanation for that we have is he thinks of Leia.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Point is there was clearly a difference in performance before and after the Leia focus came into play.And lets not fool ourselves, this is by far the most powerful Kenobi has ever been portrayed. And the only explanation for that we have is he thinks of Leia.
That's called motivation. It's internal. When I saw that scene, I thought Qui-Gon would appear and help Obi-Wan, but nope. Kenobi did it alone.
Originally posted by Psychotron
That's called motivation. It's internal. When I saw that scene, I thought Qui-Gon would appear and help Obi-Wan, but nope. Kenobi did it alone.
I was waiting for that as well. Would have made much more sense.
But even then, it would have been a pep talk, so it still would have essentially been Obi-Wan empowering himself.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Honestly that issue was sorta there in the OT. Because we saw Ben was a near match for Vader in ANH, when his powers were apparently weakened due to old age.
That's because Lucas saw Vader as a broken shell of his former self.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Filoni had a theory which bears more weight now. That Ben wanted Luke to redeem Vader all along, despite what he tells him.
Obi-Wan practically threw his hands up when Luke said he couldn't kill his own father in ROTJ.
Originally posted by Galan007
It is pretty comical that Kenobi refused to kill Vader out of brotherly nostalgia, but then placed the sole burden to do so on Vader's own f*cking son... and then scoffed when Luke said he couldn't do it.
And it was right after the scene, where Vader confirmed that Anakin is gone and Vader is all that's left. Kenobi even agreed by calling him "Darth", so if Kenobi is convinced Anakin is truly gone, why would he let Vader live? It's just bad writing. It would have been cheesy and cliche, but something should have interrupted that scene and forced Kenobi to run, like maybe inquisitors and stormtroopers arriving to help Vader or something.
Originally posted by ares834
Well obviously not. Kenobi has never been about raw power but rather finesse and skill. Now he's putting Yoda to shame...
Yeah, at this point, Kenobi show Vader and Obi-Wan are stronger than Yoda/Sids in terms of showings.
Yoda has to put actual effort into his TK (Dooku's rocks, the Senate pod, lifting the X-Wing) and Sids' TK is pretty modest in comparison (the Senate pods he throws are being manipulated via the anti-grav tech as you can hear them whirling). Really, even in the PT TK usage was very reasonable and not a game-breaker, and Obi-Wan stalemated against a pissed off Anakin who was (per GL's own words) in his prime.
Meanwhile, you have Vader doing feats that would require Magneto levels of power, and Obi-Wan throwing rocks by the dozen. You'd have to reach into old EU/Legends to find comparable TK feats, like in Dark Empire with Luke crushing an AT-AT with a gesture.
Originally posted by Galan007
It is pretty comical that Kenobi refused to kill Vader out of brotherly nostalgia, but then placed the sole burden to do so on Vader's own f*cking son... and then scoffed when Luke said he couldn't do it.
Truth.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah, at this point, Kenobi show Vader and Obi-Wan are stronger than Yoda/Sids in terms of showings.Yoda has to put actual effort into his TK (Dooku's rocks, the Senate pod, lifting the X-Wing) and Sids' TK is pretty modest in comparison (the Senate pods he throws are being manipulated via the anti-grav tech as you can hear them whirling). Really, even in the PT TK usage was very reasonable and not a game-breaker, and Obi-Wan stalemated against a pissed off Anakin who was (per GL's own words) in his prime.
Meanwhile, you have Vader doing feats that would require Magneto levels of power, and Obi-Wan throwing rocks by the dozen. You'd have to reach into old EU/Legends to find comparable TK feats, like in Dark Empire with Luke crushing an AT-AT with a gesture.
Truth.
Originally posted by Psychotron
And it was right after the scene, where Vader confirmed that Anakin is gone and Vader is all that's left. Kenobi even agreed by calling him "Darth", so if Kenobi is convinced Anakin is truly gone, why would he let Vader live? It's just bad writing. It would have been cheesy and cliche, but something should have interrupted that scene and forced Kenobi to run, like maybe inquisitors and stormtroopers arriving to help Vader or something.