Originally posted by Makedde
It would offend me if all pro lifers wanted to ban abortion. I don't want it banned. If you ban abortion, rape victims would be forced to give birth, women would die because they wouldn't be able to have an abortion to save their own lives etc. Banning abortion might bring down the abortion rate, but with all the desperate women going and having a coathanger abortion, we'd have thousands of women dying each year, which is something we don't need, and what I certainly don't want. I would never want abortion made illegal. Restrictions, more sex education, mandatory counselling, yes, but never make it illegal, That would be the worst thing you could do.
In that case, though, you're not pro-life. That's why you (and others) are getting confused.
Originally posted by Makedde
It would offend me if all pro lifers wanted to ban abortion. I don't want it banned. If you ban abortion, rape victims would be forced to give birth, women would die because they wouldn't be able to have an abortion to save their own lives etc. Banning abortion might bring down the abortion rate, but with all the desperate women going and having a coathanger abortion, we'd have thousands of women dying each year, which is something we don't need, and what I certainly don't want. I would never want abortion made illegal. Restrictions, more sex education, mandatory counselling, yes, but never make it illegal, That would be the worst thing you could do.
I know it might be confusing because you are what you thought you were opposing, but you have arrived at the same conclusion myself and others have. Accept it.
Originally posted by Makedde
Even I still believe, and always will, that all abortion is wrong? Whats wrong with being against abortion, for moral reasons, but not wanting it to be banned? Not all pro lifers thumb their noses at women.
Well, it's not about being wrong. Just hen you are you are pro-choice...not pro-life.
Originally posted by Makedde
^I have never seen myself as pro choice, ever. I don't support abortion, I just don't think it should be made illegal. I would never want to force any woman to do something against her wishes. I wouldn't like it, soI can understand how woman feel. But I still think it's morally wrong to abort.
Originally posted by Makedde
It would offend me if all pro lifers wanted to ban abortion. I don't want it banned. If you ban abortion, rape victims would be forced to give birth, women would die because they wouldn't be able to have an abortion to save their own lives etc. Banning abortion might bring down the abortion rate, but with all the desperate women going and having a coathanger abortion, we'd have thousands of women dying each year, which is something we don't need, and what I certainly don't want. I would never want abortion made illegal. Restrictions, more sex education, mandatory counselling, yes, but never make it illegal, That would be the worst thing you could do.
There is a correlation between the availibility of safe and legal abortions and the abortion rate. The number of abortions performed in the United States has declined every year since abortion became legalized.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
There is a correlation between the availibility of safe and legal abortions and the abortion rate. The number of abortions performed in the United States has declined every year since abortion became legalized.
1.25 million is a decline? 😕 What was the abortion rate before abortion were made legal?
Originally posted by Makedde
Even I still believe, and always will, that all abortion is wrong? Whats wrong with being against abortion, for moral reasons, but not wanting it to be banned? Not all pro lifers thumb their noses at women.
Originally posted by Makedde
^I have never seen myself as pro choice, ever. I don't support abortion, I just don't think it should be made illegal. I would never want to force any woman to do something against her wishes. I wouldn't like it, soI can understand how woman feel. But I still think it's morally wrong to abort.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Only in some countries. Once again, you are showing a very narrow view.This thread is not about the law of any one country, it is about the morality of the act itserlf, upon which the laws get based, in many different ways in many different places.
I'm not showing a narrow view, just not an overly wide view.
I still find it hilarious that now the law doesn't matter. Had it been on your side (like you so arrogantly assumed it was), I'm sure everything would be different.
Nobody is denying that laws are decided based on morals, but you seem to enjoy applying your personal moral code to everyone else. It doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, because as I keep having to remind you, if it is the second case then it is morally equivalent to murder, and at that point the idea that you could choose to do that is no longer a defence.
And as I have to keep reminding you, there's no murder outside of legality. That's a fact. You kicking and screaming about morality and moral equivalents won't do you any good.
You are still operating from the stance of "Morally, to me, it's wrong. So she shouldn't be able to do it." Which is complete bs.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Crap. On that basis, there would be no laws at all. You have to accept that morality DOES get inflicted on people, and that process is called law. A heck of a lot of laws do not agree with you, and only in the most oppressive and evil regimes- like China- do they fully agree with you, up to the point of allowing 8 month partial birth abortions. You can go to jail for a long time for trying to do that in the UK.
Yes, but let's not make more morally infringing laws where there needn't be any. It's a simple choice. If you have major problem with abortion, stay away from it. Don't get one, don't view them, don't go near clinics. If a woman wants an abortion at any time, she should be allowed the right to have one. It doesn't affect you.
We've been over the law thing when you say "The law agrees with me, give up." Remember? You spoke of UK law, a law which ironically, doesn't agree with you.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No I am not. I am saying it would be morally wrong to have one. Just in thr same way that plenty of people want to commit murder. They want it, but it is wrong to.
Morally wrong, there's that phrase again. Murder is "wrong" because it is taking away another person's life, it's factually murder. Abortion is nothing of the sort, therefore morally wrong to you or not, it's nothing to do with you. It affects nobody but the female.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If the stage at which a foetus is actually now a 'human' life ever is established, expect to see aboritons become totally illegal after that point for any reason at all- I will remind you, that is the criteria upon which nearly all abortion laws are based, except they are simply guessing at what point that is.
Abortions will still happen, through some other means, if they are made illegal. I will continue to maintain the same opinion of abortion as long as I live, but right now the law is on my side, not yours.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I would also point out that no attempt was ever made in the UK to make abortion on demand legal; it came about by accident.
Gotta love the irony there. Accident.
Either way, the only thing you can say about abortion is that it's morally wrong in certain times, which is fine. I just fail to see why you are trying to insist women cannot have them at certain points. Putting it alongside murder is just ridiculous.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is possible that that is the lesser of two evils. If the baby had already been born, you wouldn't kill it; once more, I point out that the Pro-Life argument is that these two acts have moral equivalence.
I'm not the one you should be pointing the pro-life side out to. I know what it is.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said at all. Try and read more carefully and stop subjecting everything said in here to your ridiculous and immature bias, as you always do.
Ridiculous and immature? This coming from the man who turned in a performance capable of winning an Oscar when I said it's not murder, and then proceeded to try and rally the majority to view me as some kind of Mengele-esque immoral monster via the medium of "Hands up if you think...". A technique not seen by these eyes since Primary School. Then to quote another poster in here and call him out for having "ignorance" of the point when all he did was present the opposing side of the argument, I suggest you think before you start labelling people. The hypocricy coming from you is sickening.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Meanwhile, I'll just repeat that everyone trying to deny that murder is also a moral term is being an idiot.
And I'll just repeat that all you're doing is throwing a temper tantrum because people aren't caving in and agreeing with you like they used to do. You're wrong, murder isn't a moral term. As proven before, try to get a rape sentance because someone has "raped" your land.
-AC
Originally posted by Syren
I have to agree. I also agree with what you're saying, but because you said you wouldn't force a woman to do anything against her will then you must be pro choice.
I only say I would never want a woman to be forced to do something against her will because I would like to be forced to do something against MY will. I wouldn't want to be forced to take drugs, or get a tattoo, or an abortion, if that wasn't what I wanted. I would not like to be controlled by another person, ever, so I can understand how women feel. I would ask every pro lifer who believes that women SHOULD be controlled to think about how they would feel if every one of the major decisions they would have to make sometime in their lives was made by someone else, and they were forced to live the way someone else wanted them to live. They would hate that, and so would I.