Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
If I have a wank and produce a fountain of sperm all over my body, am I then accountable for all the millions of little babies I could have made if only I had pumped my little swimmers into a woman who was receptive to them?
Completely.
You are hereby the most infamous mass murderer since the Nazis.
Originally posted by botankus
Warnings should have been issued since the first page of this thread, for your analysis has pretty much been on target for the entire duration. My point being, no one has gone out and gotten knocked up and contemplated an abortion - so these gibberish, nonsensical comments have pretty much been supplied with every post.If I want to know a decision about reading a QB's eyes on a zone blitz, I want to hear it from a linebacker, not an accountant.
If I want to know about manufacturing principles and press brake setup, I want to hear it from someone who's worked in a factory, not a newspaper columnist.
If I want to know about the psychological effects of a divorce on a child, I want to hear it from a child who's been through it, not some dude on the streets selling hot dogs with parents preparing to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary.Et cetera.
I vote this thread be closed until someone gets knocked up, and then they petition the mods with proof of their abortion decision for a case to reopen it.
The thread remains open for new members that want to give out their opinions or comments on the subject. Also closing this thread is not going to stop the discussion. Eventually someone else will open a thread with the same topic and the whole recycle debate starts all over.
What we can do is ensure this thread doesn't derailed with utter nonsense and redirect members to the original topic. Troublemakers will get warnings and if that doesn't work we will removed them. Simple.
So we ask again, please Stay on topic. If you really have nothing to say (not directly at you botankus) then don't...have courtesy and let others voice their opinions.
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
If I have a wank and produce a fountain of sperm all over my body, am I then accountable for all the millions of little babies I could have made if only I had pumped my little swimmers into a woman who was receptive to them?
You know a thread has gone on too long when a brilliant joke such as this has been used before as a serious argument. 100 pages ago.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
There are many "Necessary Evils". War is often one of them. Not everything can be rationally discussed.However, abortion is not one of those evils. "Necessary", yes. Evil? No.
Whether or not it is good or evil is infiniately debatable Capt and it is as infinately subjective here. For you to say "no" is just as valid as me saying "yes". 😉
And since when is abortion Necessary? You are saying that every woman HAS to get an abortion? She can never decide to have the child, because she must get an abortion? It's that necessary?
Abortion is only necessary when the foetus threatens the mother's life. In all other cases, it is PURELY done out of convienence, pressure, a supposed inability to take care of the child, etc. but not necessity.
I do not get your logic here.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And since when is abortion Necessary?
Why are you still asking questions like this? Seriously, I'm curious.
Moreover, why are you still making statements like this?:
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abortion is only necessary when the foetus threatens the mother's life. In all other cases, it is PURELY done out of convienence, pressure, a supposed inability to take care of the child, etc. but not necessity.I do not get your logic here.
A) You answered your own question. "Since when is abortion necessary? Abortion is only necessary when...".
B) "Necessary" is subjective. What's necessary to a woman isn't necessary to you, maybe. Think of that? You don't see the logic?
I'll tell you what logic I don't see, and probably never will. It's this:
"I think abortion is wrong, but I'm not against it. I think the woman has a right to decide what she wants to do with it, but I will decided when abortion is necessary or not."
That's the logic I don't get, because it's not logic. It's a mish-mash of contradiction and hypocricy because you're too timid to jump down on either side of the fence. You don't want to seem oppressive, you don't want to seem heartless, so you continue to tip your toe in the pool, too scared too dive in. All the while trying to point out when people are out of their depth and should stop swimming, or finding fault in how they swim.
Instead of picking at the very sensible logic of people who are already in the deep end, try actually getting your hair wet first.
That's a metaphor, if you don't get it I'm not explaining it.
-AC
Originally posted by The Omega
See, we’ll probably end up agreeing on many things maybe 😄
See, in a “perfect” world there would be no need for abortions nor any need for war. The former would be the case, because a child would not be in the way for a woman to make a living or get an education or a career. Or maybe, in a perfect world, contraception would be 100 % foolproof.
And it is also a fact, that in countries were abortions is legal and accessible, the rate is far lower than in countries were it is illegal.
If only this world were perfect. However, it is not. Therefore certain "immoral actions" are REQUIRED for better future results for the majority.
Originally posted by The Omega
Then I misunderstood your USE of the word convenience. My apologies. There’s also the simple depression post-abortion due to the hormones going “huh, what happened there,” and the fact that there is a risk (however minimal it may be) that the procedure may damage a woman’s conceptive ability so to speak.
Not all Post Abortion Depression is hormonally provoked. Many women have been devestated by the realization that they had pretty much killed thier own child. Call it a "seed", call it "a foetus", call it non-human or whatever you wanna call it.
They killed their son or daughter.....that's basically what they did. Try telling some of these women who are in pain over this realization that they shouldn't be sad, because thier sons or daughters were not even "human beings" yet. 😉
Originally posted by The Omega
See, I do not see a selfish reason as being the wrong one when it comes to parenthood. It’s not a dog or a new couch you’re getting. It’s a very big responsibility. Using abortions as some kind of peculiar contraceptive is also wrong in my book. But most girls/women DO protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies… That alone should tell anyone that they do not WANT children at the moment of their lives. I want parents to WANTS and WISH for a child.
So do I, but you are suggesting that IF the parents do not want the child, or if the parents are incompatible, that the child should not live. End of story....the feotus has no right to be born...if the mother doesn't want it to.
The human being should never exist, if it's parents do not approve. Is that what you are saying?
Originally posted by The Omega
It is NOT the time when you’re almost a child yourself, in the middle of an education, do not have a steady partner and the surroundings to raise a child. And had you mum chosen an abortion we’d not be having this discussion. Some people are strong/mature enough to HAVE kids at a young age… But seriously… Look around you… Others most definitely are NOT!
I agree that many people are not suitable to be parents, I even would agree that many people do not deserve to be parents. But, simultaneously, you are also saying that the child does not have the right to exist in this case, whether you realize it or not.
You may not mean to be, and may not realize it, but you are seemingly judging the child's worth and right to exist by the standards and qualifications of its parents.
I KNOW that many people are not parent material. Trust me, I beleive this much ! But that does NOT MEAN the kid should not exist. There are many people who cannot have children, that would love to adopt.
Originally posted by The Omega
You never know… your never know how terrible things can turn out if you DO have the child. See? It’s pointless to speculate. I do not think ONE specific gene-pool, independent of the surroundings mean ANYTHING. And to me “I can’t do it right now” is all the reason you need. The girls/womans LIFE and FUTURE is at stake here… She should NEVER place HER needs second in such a situation. Child-abuse, broken homes, broken youngsters is all the proof I need…
Then let's not speculate, because neither of us know. Every individual life and chance is different. However, it seems to me as if you would rather NOT allow the chance to be there, and you seem to be willing to disallow the lifeform from existing, simply because you fear thier lives may be miserable.
Who are you to make such a judgement on one's supposed future? Tell me 😉
Child Abuse...the fault of the ADULT, not the child. So the child should NOT exist, simply because IT MAY be abused? Punish the child, by disallowing it to exist?
"I can't do it right now".....the woman's choice to decide. I would never take choice away, but to me...this is not an excuse. However, I am not a woman. If i WERE a woman, I'd be VERY tempted to have an abortion, simply because i dont wanna have kids ne way. But that wouldn't make it right.
Originally posted by The Omega
Again: A woman is not a breeding machine for childless couples. Millions of children in 3rd world countries die each year from starvation and illness. Adopt THEM first! Help THEM first. Don’t bring more kids into the most energy-consuming part of the world if the woman doesn’t want to. That viewpoint makes me sick.
I never said she was. But giving birth to a child, does not make a woman a breeding machine. The men have a role in creating to you know, the child is as much thiers as it is the mother's.
Althought I agree that we should highly consider the children that exist today and now in this world, instead of focusing on children who do not exist yet......it does not lessen the worth and value of a new life.
A new life is innocent. Although we have the right to choice, although we have the self given authority to determine who lives and who dies, often out of necessity, none of us have the absolute moral right to end a life based on our own judgements.
You are not superior to another human. Regardless of whether or not that human is still a feotus, or even already dead. You do not have the true right to decide the fate and worth of another life. We only TAKE that right by force and authority, but we never truly earn it. 😉
Originally posted by The Omega
I already had an abortion many years ago. I was 19, the contraception failed, the relationship was just “for fun” and I hadn’t even started uni yet. Again, what right does anyone have to decide the fate of the pregnant woman?? Here life will be changed forever if she is forced to have a child.
No one is deciding the fate of a pregnant woman. Didn't I already say numerous times "It's the woman's choice in the end"....and that I would never force my opinion and the woman?
Repeating this point of how we have no right to control the woman's decision to me, is POINTLESS because we already agree on this matter.
Again, you say if she is forced...whose forcing here? NOT ME
There is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between thinking that abortion is immoral, and then thinking that Abortion should be banned.
Originally posted by The Omega
And who are you to say people SHOULD have the child anyway? I had an abortion and here I am, fine and well, healthy and productive and happy as hell.
I never commented on whether or not the woman SHOULD have the child, and whether or not he SHOULD have an Abortion.
I merely stated why and when I think Abortion is immoral, yet i said NUMEROUS TIMES that I do not think Abortion should be banned. I said numerous times that all options should be put on the table, and that abortion should be thought through hard before done.
Originally posted by The Omega
Dude? I am a girl! 😄 Some people may rise to the occasion, others will not. That your parents managed is not empirical evidence that ALL will rise, you know? Again, child-abuse, broken homes, broken people is all the evidence you need. They also WANTED you, yes? So there’s a difference.
My dad did not want me. My mom was the only person who wanted me to exist. Even her doctors and teachers tried to convince her to have an abortion.
Broken homes and child abuse is not the fault the child birth. When will you get this through your head? And promoting Abortion is not going to alleviate child abuse and broke homes.
These kinds of things are the faults of the ADULTS not the children. If ANTYHING, the adults should be exterminated in the cases, not the child (and note that this is an exxageration, i am against murder)
You speak about child abuse, about harming a child, and a child living a miserable life....as if killing the child is any better? As if preventing it's existance is any better? 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Are you actually homosexual? Because I hope you're not posting in here with an anti-abortion opinion if you are.That will be remarkably hypocritical.
-AC
Yes I am a homosexual. And yes I am posting an anti abortion opion. Homosexuality is after all, a form of birth control.
Originally posted by The Omega
The Spinner> What? Did you give up already?
"Contrary to common belief, we can actually hear silence if we are smart enough to listen to it" (TheSpinner).
I wish I were a woman, I would have had an abortion to at least to have a better perspective on it.
Why bother with arguing past each other forever when a simple fact can do a far better job. and actions always speak better than with words.
Peace, Love, Friendship and a lot of Fun.
😖leep:
Originally posted by Draco69
He's a another sock of Whodamandog.Apparently he went psycho while I was away from KMC......
😱
I don't know what your talking about. I'm not the person you keep calling me. You were cool in the Homophobia thread in the beginnin, but then you started making all this stuff about me that isn't true. Whatever, if you don't like me, then take it to the PM. I'm here to discuss the topic, not debate with you about my sexuality or whatever.
Originally posted by TheSpinner
"Contrary to common belief, we can actually hear silence if we are smart enough to listen to it" (TheSpinner).I wish I were a woman, I would have had an abortion to at least to have a better perspective on it.
Why bother with arguing past each other forever when a simple fact can do a far better job. and actions always speak better than with words.
Peace, Love, Friendship and a lot of Fun.
😖leep:
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Now your making fun of gays too by saying that you wish you were a woman. ha ha funny. I guess your pro abortion...right?
And by the way, did you make up that little quote above by yourself?
Hey I got one for you.
"Even the fool is thought of as wise when he keeps silent.."
Why don't you put a little Spin on that...
Originally posted by Gay GuyHey I got one for you.
"Even the fool is thought of as wise when he keeps silent.."
Why don't you put a little Spin on that...
Here is your spin:
A silent fool like me can fool others into thinking he is wise. a talking fool like yourself is only fooling himself into thinking he wise.