Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're not murdering it, you're killing it. Fact. Legal fact. Murder is a legal term and it doesn't apply to abortion. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.A) Unlawful, which abortion isn't.
B) Human being, which at the time of abortion, the foetus is not.
C) Stop with the soul talk, that's only your opinion.
You're wrong.
As I said above, it's not murder for those reasons, and there are more. Another being that it's not premeditated just because he knows what he's doing. He doesn't sit there maliciously thinking "I want to kill some bastard little babies.". It's a perfectly legal procedure. Law says it's not murder, so you're factually wrong.
Killing is terminating something that is alive.
Murder is the unlawful and premeditated malicious killing of a human being, with intent.
The first one applies to abortion (ABORT-ion), not murder.
That's manslaughter, first of all, not simply killing.
I know what murder is, and all you did just then was prove that it's not murder. Which it isn't. No doctor can be trialed for murder if he carries out an abortion, because it's factually not murder.
Yeah, and also that Mike is a living, breathing, independent human being. Not a dependent foetus.
It's not murder, and I have facts. You do not.
A) God is subjective, stop bringing religion in whenever you start to lose a debate. It has no place here.
B) God killed babies. Actual babies, first born sons.
-AC
To me it irrelevant , Drunks kill, Women kill. The whole USA kills thousands of innocents a year. And yet you dick heads care more about womens rights then the children of the future. I hope to god you people who are pro-choice get a stick up your ass and some humanity, a big dose of it before its to late and the shit hits the fan.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, i can see that you are going into "argument" mode again. question: why do you feel the need to quote me like 6 and 7 times, to go out of your way making a big presentation about trying to prove me wrong? why cant you just talk? why cant you just post like a regular person instead of a primadona? it seems that you love to single me out, to show others how creative you are.
i posted nothing harsh towards you. but again you are telling me, flat out telling me, that i am wrong. maybe i am wrong. maybe you are wrong. maybe BF is wrong. who knows? who cares? i am merely stating my opinion here, presenting different scenarios, but you are getting all worked up again.
i honestly dont want to argue with you anymore, i really mean that. lets just act like the grown men we are, ok?
Dude, the whole point to a debate is to argue....
Originally posted by WickedTexasMomA
To me it irrelevant , Drunks kill, Women kill. The whole USA kills thousands of innocents a year. And yet you dick heads care more about womens rights then the children of the future. I hope to god you people who are pro-choice get a stick up your ass and some humanity, a big dose of it before its to late and the shit hits the fan.
I get "sticks" up my ass all the time. And it feels mad good droolio
He does this, Urizen, he has victim syndrome. You learn to deal with it.
Originally posted by WickedTexasMomA
To me it irrelevant , Drunks kill, Women kill. The whole USA kills thousands of innocents a year. And yet you dick heads care more about womens rights then the children of the future. I hope to god you people who are pro-choice get a stick up your ass and some humanity, a big dose of it before its to late and the shit hits the fan.
To me it's not irrelevent. Do you think alcohol should be banned? Answer the question please. I know you've taken drugs, and even driven drunk before.
You have a right to take what you want into your own body, as a woman has the right to an abortion.
Secondly, yes, I care more about a woman's right to abortion, why? Because they are here and they exist. Children of the future? The future is a concept, an idea. It doesn't exist. The only thing that does exist is the present. There's no such thing as a "future child" unless the woman decides to let the present foetus become a child.
So do yourself a favour. Get off your soapbox and learn a little.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, i can see that you are going into "argument" mode again. question: why do you feel the need to quote me like 6 and 7 times, to go out of your way making a big presentation about trying to prove me wrong? why cant you just talk? why cant you just post like a regular person instead of a primadona? it seems that you love to single me out, to show others how creative you are.
i posted nothing harsh towards you. but again you are telling me, flat out telling me, that i am wrong. maybe i am wrong. maybe you are wrong. maybe BF is wrong. who knows? who cares? i am merely stating my opinion here, presenting different scenarios, but you are getting all worked up again.
i honestly dont want to argue with you anymore, i really mean that. lets just act like the grown men we are, ok?
I'm telling you you're wrong because by fact you are, and Backfire told you the same, Urizen and XMarkstheSpot will tell you the same. Anyone with simple logic and understanding will tell you the same.
Who cares? You care. You simply don't like having your opinion challenged and in many cases, disproven, so I don't know why you bother posting in the GDF. If you can't handle the heat, leave the kitchen. Don't post here and then moan when you're wrong.
Stop trying to make everything personal, it's getting stupid, every single thread. I've tried to take it to PMs, but you always cowardly disable your PMs before I can reply. So either shut up and accept that debates happen in the GDF, and you'll be proven wrong if you are wrong, or don't debate.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He does this, Urizen, he has victim syndrome. You learn to deal with it.To me it's not irrelevent. Do you think alcohol should be banned? Answer the question please. I know you've taken drugs, and even driven drunk before.
You have a right to take what you want into your own body, as a woman has the right to an abortion.
Secondly, yes, I care more about a woman's right to abortion, why? Because they are here and they exist. Children of the future? The future is a concept, an idea. It doesn't exist. The only thing that does exist is the present. There's no such thing as a "future child" unless the woman decides to let the present foetus become a child.
So do yourself a favour. Get off your soapbox and learn a little.
I'm telling you you're wrong because by fact you are, and Backfire told you the same, Urizen and XMarkstheSpot will tell you the same. Anyone with simple logic and understanding will tell you the same.
Who cares? You care. You simply don't like having your opinion challenged and in many cases, disproven, so I don't know why you bother posting in the GDF. If you can't handle the heat, leave the kitchen. Don't post here and then moan when you're wrong.
Stop trying to make everything personal, it's getting stupid, every single thread. I've tried to take it to PMs, but you always cowardly disable your PMs before I can reply. So either shut up and accept that debates happen in the GDF, and you'll be proven wrong if you are wrong, or don't debate.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
my pm's are wide open. you know this for a fact. what you are doing is not debating, its telling others "i am right, you are wrong." period. thats not debating. debating is listening to others arguments, then posting your opinion on the matter. its not about singling one person out to bash them at every turn.
BF, urizen, they did not do this. they merely posted their opinions, which i respect. i might not agree, but i dont discriminate them for it.
again with the insults. i am a coward, eh? well, i guess since your word is law, i will accept that. i guess since you know what is right and wrong, i will consider you my personal messiah. all hail lord Alpha Centauri!!!
No, you simply do not get it, RJ.
Abortion isn't murder, not because I say it's not, but because it's not murder by fact, and I have proven why. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. BackFire knows this and he said it to you, Urizen also knows this, and I civilly explained it to him ages ago, he got it and we moved on.
You simply hate ME proving YOU wrong. If it was anyone else you'd not give a shit. Just drop the grudge, whatever it is, and stop being such a drama queen.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, you simply do not get it, RJ.Abortion isn't murder, not because I say it's not, but because it's not murder by fact, and I have proven why. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. BackFire knows this and he said it to you, Urizen also knows this, and I civilly explained it to him ages ago, he got it and we moved on.
You simply hate ME proving YOU wrong. If it was anyone else you'd not give a shit. Just drop the grudge, whatever it is, and stop being such a drama queen.
-AC
wanker
Yeah, I have a habit of getting hated by people on the net who simply can't debate properly. Woe is me.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
😂 😂 all hail lord AC!!! he knows all!!! he sees all!!!! he knows everything and we know nothing!!!! he is just flat out better than all of us!!!!!! 😂 😂wanker
Your words, not mine.
-AC
I propose that we outlaw points especially designed to provoke emotions.
Murder has a decidedly unpleasant (and probably deserved) connotation of evil, and making the term synonymous with abortion seems to be a fairly effective way of spreading a belief.
I've lost count of how many times a random person comes into the thread, says "I don't approve of abortion because it's murdering innocent babies" then going on to post pictures and write stories especially designed to make people feel bad, but not making any real points or bothering to address others' arguments.
So I'll just rehash what I've said before....
1) Abortion is not murder. Murder is a legal term, thus to use it out of context is inappropriate. Would you go around bandying around the words manslaughter or battery? No. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with premeditated intent to kill or cause grievous harm. If abortion is legal, then it is not murder. Simple.
2) Is a foetus a human being? This is the main point in the argument. If it is not, then counting on a potential life makes the pro-life stance very weak.
Why? Because potential is such a slippery slope. If that man hadn't worn a condom, he could've impregnated the woman, thus making a child. If the woman wasn't grotesquely ugly, she wouldn't have died a virgin, and could've had a 10 children. If that little girl hadn't died, she could've been a mother. And those children would then have had more children, etc. etc.
Going beyond that, say a person is born, and is not encouraged to work towards academia. They could have found a cure for cancer, saving thousands of lives. But they didn't. Are they a killer for not doing so? Were the people around him killers for not encouraging him.
Dealing in could have/would have/will be's is not a good idea.
3) How important is it to enforce abstinence and/or having as many people alive at once? What's the point?
I'd think it's better to improve the world around us, and decrease the suffering of those who are alive.
4) "Give me liberty or give me death". Take that as you will.