Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What caused you to change your mind?-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i just...well, i thought of an innocent baby in its mothers womb being yanked out for no reason other than the woman not wanting to have it. the baby did nothing to no one, but it is being murdered. and in my opinion, thats all abortion is.....murder. all because some chick does not wanna have the baby.
Fair Enough....
Would you force a woman to undergo the pain of child birth or get a c-section though? That's the other side of this coin.
eitherway, the Abortion issue is a lose-lose situation.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i just...well, i thought of an innocent baby in its mothers womb being yanked out for no reason other than the woman not wanting to have it. the baby did nothing to no one, but it is being murdered. and in my opinion, thats all abortion is.....murder. all because some chick does not wanna have the baby.
Fair enough view, though I disagree.
However, it's not murder, that's a proven fact, proven by me and many, many others in this thread. It's killing, it's not murder. Murder is a very specific crime, not applicable to abortion.
It's also not an actual "baby" at the time.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Fair enough view, though I disagree.However, it's not murder, that's a proven fact, proven by me and many, many others in this thread. It's killing, it's not murder. Murder is a very specific crime, not applicable to abortion.
It's also not an actual "baby" at the time.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so its not a living thing? its not alive? i dont buy that. it has a soul. if something has a soul, it is alive. i am not a scientist, and i am sure that the fetus is unaware of what goes on, but its still killing a living thing.
Fact: It IS a living thing ✅
Myth: It has a Soul....no one knows. ❌
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so its not a living thing? its not alive? i dont buy that. it has a soul. if something has a soul, it is alive. i am not a scientist, and i am sure that the fetus is unaware of what goes on, but its still killing a living thing.
See what I mean? Why do you do that? Why do you put things in my post that simply aren't there? I never said it wasn't a living thing, I never said it wasn't alive.
Whether it has a soul or not is subjective, you can't go applying that logic to everyone, because not everyone believes in souls.
Yes, it is killing a living thing, but killing doesn't equal murder, as I've said to people many times. Killing is an act, just an act. It's how you do that act, why you do it and who you do it to, that defines how you're charged. This doesn't apply to abortion.
E.g: Killing in defense or by accident is justifiable homicide or manslaughter. Murder is just a type of killing.
Abortion is killing, sure, but so is chopping down trees. It's not murder to have an abortion, it's just killing. If you disagree with that killing, that is ENTIRELY up to you, and you have a right to not like it, but it's not murder.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
See what I mean? Why do you do that? Why do you put things in my post that simply aren't there? I never said it wasn't a living thing, I never said it wasn't alive.Whether it has a soul or not is subjective, you can't go applying that logic to everyone, because not everyone believes in souls.
Yes, it is killing a living thing, but killing doesn't equal murder, as I've said to people many times. Killing is an act, just an act. It's how you do that act, why you do it and who you do it to, that defines how you're charged. This doesn't apply to abortion.
E.g: Killing in defense or by accident is justifiable homicide or manslaughter. Murder is just a type of killing.
Abortion is killing, sure, but so is chopping down trees. It's not murder to have an abortion, it's just killing. If you disagree with that killing, that is ENTIRELY up to you, and you have a right to not like it, but it's not murder.
-AC
the fact that is not a baby at the time matters not. it is still a living breathing thing. it is alive and has a soul, and by aborting it, youare murdering it. why? because the doctor knows what he is doing, he knows that there is a baby there, he knows that if he does the procedure the baby will cease to exist. it is premeditated, therefore it is murder, not killing. whats the difference between murder and killing? lets say jim and mike are in a fight. jim accidentally kills mike. he doesnt mean to, it just happens. that is killing. now if jim pulls out a knife and, in his head, wants to kill mike, and then succeeds in doing so, that is murder. premeditation and intent are the differences.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the fact that is not a baby at the time matters not. it is still a living breathing thing. it is alive and has a soul, and by aborting it, youare murdering it.
You're not murdering it, you're killing it. Fact. Legal fact. Murder is a legal term and it doesn't apply to abortion. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.
A) Unlawful, which abortion isn't.
B) Human being, which at the time of abortion, the foetus is not.
C) Stop with the soul talk, that's only your opinion.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
why? because the doctor knows what he is doing, he knows that there is a baby there, he knows that if he does the procedure the baby will cease to exist. it is premeditated, therefore it is murder, not killing.
You're wrong.
As I said above, it's not murder for those reasons, and there are more. Another being that it's not premeditated just because he knows what he's doing. He doesn't sit there maliciously thinking "I want to kill some bastard little babies.". It's a perfectly legal procedure. Law says it's not murder, so you're factually wrong.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
whats the difference between murder and killing?
Killing is terminating something that is alive.
Murder is the unlawful and premeditated malicious killing of a human being, with intent.
The first one applies to abortion (ABORT-ion), not murder.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
lets say jim and mike are in a fight. jim accidentally kills mike. he doesnt mean to, it just happens. that is killing. now if jim pulls out a knife and, in his head, wants to kill mike, and then succeeds in doing so,
That's manslaughter, first of all, not simply killing.
I know what murder is, and all you did just then was prove that it's not murder. Which it isn't. No doctor can be trialed for murder if he carries out an abortion, because it's factually not murder.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
that is murder. premeditation and intent are the differences.
Yeah, and also that Mike is a living, breathing, independent human being. Not a dependent foetus.
It's not murder, and I have facts. You do not.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i just want to clear the air here. are we talking about mans law or gods law?
A) God is subjective, stop bringing religion in whenever you start to lose a debate. It has no place here.
B) God killed babies. Actual babies, first born sons.
-AC
Have you ever seen the end result of an abortion? They cut the child up in little pieces, first the head is removed, then the arms, the chest and legs. Abortion are now done up to a 31 weeks at which point the baby CAN feel. At 31 weeks a baby can be delivered safe and whole and yet now they are ending up in the trash behind buildings. Its sicking but oh its a choice, It just not one a person can truly live with if they ever knew. But the women of today are to selfish to think of anything but them self's and there figure.
Originally posted by WickedTexasMomA
Have you ever seen the end result of an abortion? They cut the child up in little pieces, first the head is removed, then the arms, the chest and legs. Abortion are now done up to a 31 weeks at which point the baby CAN feel. At 31 weeks a baby can be delivered safe and whole and yet now they are ending up in the trash behind buildings. Its sicking but oh its a choice, It just not one a person can truly live with if they ever knew. But the women of today are to selfish to think of anything but them self's and there figure.
Very Valid Argument. I think they should limit the time window for legal Abortion, before the foetus develops nerves.
They used to allow Partial Birth Abortion, and that's sadistic.
However, if the Abortion is done a week after conception, i don't see a problem as the embryo cannot feel pain, nor has a brain yet (pretty much renders it less of a being).
If you wanted to Ban Abortion, you'd subject all women to the pain of unwanted child birth
Originally posted by WickedTexasMomA
A woman thats already had one doesn't have the right to decide anything. An at that point its to late, America really does need to educate people on the subject in school and out of it.
A woman has the right to do whatever she wants to her body, and that which grows in it.
Quick question: Do you believe all drugs should be illegal and banned? (Trust me, this IS a relevent question).
-AC