Abortion

Originally posted by Alliance
IF you read what I said...i never called an embryo a sentient being.

A fetus is human...just as much as any cell with human DNA is.

A uterus is also human, but it is not a sperate entity...it is an organ of a human. A fetus is a seperate entity.

And, might I add, semantics are very important.

1. Its how we communicate and people should have the same idea of what words mean in order to convey their ideas effectively.

2. Words are loaded with defintion, and using them appropriately is essential, especially in legal matters such as this one.

So, if you don't want to play semantics, you don't have to. I never asked you. So don't push this problem off on me.

entity:
1. something that has a real existence; thing: corporeal entities.
2. being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
3. essential nature: The entity of justice is universality.

so you tag your own meaning to "entity"? then define your new definition to clear things up and we can go from there.

and yes, you played a semantics game: changing the meaning of "human" from adj to noun. thats a copout, its fraudulent, and its flatout wrong and cheap. worst of all: its meaningless and proves nothing besides your desparation to feel right. all the ranting and passing the buck to me doesnt change that. put simply: its deception.

Point taken, PVS. I'm just glad you didn't put that www.dictionary.com link. That would have been a minus-5 points in the Debating Tournament.

Originally posted by botankus
Point taken, PVS. I'm just glad you didn't put that www.dictionary.com link. That would have been a minus-5 points in the Debating Tournament.

why? where else shall i reference the meaning of a word in question besides a dictionary?

Don't listen to him, 'tankus. He's just mad cause he is old. He envies your youth.

Because using that link was a flaming-hot item in the "Idiotic Debating Techniques" thread.

Also, you forgot to point out how I just lost five points for providing the link. 😛 You lose ten.

yes, if only i could be botankus, and reclaim all those 13 months lost 🙁

Originally posted by PVS
yes, if only i could be botankus, and reclaim all those 13 months lost 🙁

Originally posted by botankus
Because using that link was a flaming-hot item in the "Idiotic Debating Techniques" thread.

well i guess it depends on the context of when it is used. i feel that if a single word is the core of someone's point, and that word is incorrectly used as such, it should be pointed out with the most valid source: a dictionary. if that is idiotic then i live on the wrong plane of reality, i'm afraid.

There's nothing wrong with being 30 if you act like you're 12 and feel like you're 48 at the same time.

Originally posted by botankus
There's nothing wrong with being 30 if you act like you're 12 and feel like you're 48 at the same time.

Haha, I'm almost 11 years younger than you. Yeah, I know my math.

[edit]Did you edit your 44 to a 48?

Yes, because I don't know my math. I was going for average here.

Originally posted by botankus
Yes, because I don't know my math. I was going for average here.

But why didn't you change the 12 to a 16?

Honestly, I really don't know.

Originally posted by botankus
Honestly, I really don't know.

It's okay, you don't have to know. You are not that old...like PVS for example.

and this illustrates the doom of our society: complete lack of respect for one's elders

Originally posted by Alliance
Technically, by all genetic standards, the being is human...this cannot be denied.

You may aregue, often correctly, that the fetus is not subject to the same rights as other conscious/developed humans that are given to us by the Constitution and our legal system. You may argue, that 32 cells is a poor excuse for a human...and you are correct, but the cells still have the potential to develop into a full fleged citizen.

But, the fact remains...that fetus has a unique combination of DNA and is composed of human cells with great potential if properly brought to term.

Potential means nothing.

It's potentially what the female allows it to be. It has no future that the woman does not give to it.

I hate this fantastical idea that all foetuses are conceived with the idea that their life is ahead of them, it's not.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Potential means nothing.

It's potentially what the female allows it to be. It has no future that the woman does not give to it.

I hate this fantastical idea that all foetuses are conceived with the idea that their life is ahead of them, it's not.

-AC

Potential does mean something.

You people certainly rape people with ideas different than your own. I hold the same ideas you do...I am attempting to rationalize ideas put forth by those who believe that no fetus should be aborted, because there is some merit to them.

A fetus does not have consciousness until a certain age. However, its cells DO have the basic instinct to survive. Is it a viable life form, outside of the mother? No. It is not. However, the cells are human cells and the fetus is alive.

Originally posted by PVS
entity:
1. something that has a real existence; thing: corporeal entities.
2. being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
3. essential nature: The entity of justice is universality.

so you tag your own meaning to "entity"? then define your new definition to clear things up and we can go from there.

and yes, you played a semantics game: changing the meaning of "human" from adj to noun. thats a copout, its fraudulent, and its flatout wrong and cheap. worst of all: its meaningless and proves nothing besides your desparation to feel right. all the ranting and passing the buck to me doesnt change that. put simply: its deception.

I had #2 in mind when I wrote. I don't belive I made up a new defenition. A fetus is a distinct being from the mother.

I have no desparation to feel right. I wasn't angry at all when I wrote that post. If you read it that way, that was not my intention. So cut the crap flaming and lets have a discussion.

I said "Technically, by all genetic standards, the being is human...this cannot be denied." I did not intend to say that the fetus was a human...sorr for not being so explicitly clear. I did say "by all genetic standards," meaning that I was only talking genetically, not adressing the concept of the fetus as a whole. I intended "human" as an adjective, describing the genetic nature of human fetuses.

No where did I say that a fetus was "a human" as Bardock suggested I did. Comments, when taken out of context, (as you like to point out) lose thier original meaning.

Originally posted by Alliance
Potential does mean something.

Do you take the potential of the fetus becoming a murderer, a rapist , Hitler or something you probably dislike into account to? No? Because potential doesn't count.

Yes I do. Humans are humans. Hitler, rapists, and murderers also do good things in the world, in addition to their obvious bad ones.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes I do. Humans are humans. Hitler, rapists, and murderers also do good things in the world, in addition to their obvious bad ones.

Yeah, well, so you want all potential babies to be delivered?