Abortion

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay?

Yes, they are technically life, but in the big picture, separately they are each but 1/2 of the necessary ingredient to make a complete human life. I do not see sperm dying in a condom as "killing life" nor do I see the menstrual flushing of an unfertilized egg as "killing life" either.

And does that also mean that if a cell is diploid it is therefore a complete human life?

Originally posted by Robtard
I never said "Abortion = murder"... You had said that people who are against abortions because it is killing should also be against contraception as it too kills. I disagree and have stated why. Abortions kill life contraception does not.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Pregnancy is medically defined as of the fertilised zygote from implantation. Anything that prevents this implantation is contraception. I.e. your argument that abortion kills life while contraception does not is inaccurate. It would be inaccurate regardless as spermatozoa and ova are life, haploid cells, but alive nonetheless.

The emergency birth control is thought to have one mechanism of action as prevention of implantation of the fertilised zygote.

The EMC is an exception to contraception as it prevents life from starting at a later time than say a condom. But at it's core, it is far different than an abortion.

Originally posted by Robtard
The EMC is an exception to contraception as it prevents life from starting at a later time than say a condom. But at it's core, it is far different than an abortion.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And the prevention of implantation of a fertilised zygote by the EBC contraceptive pill.

And does that also mean that if a cell is diploid it is therefore a complete human life?

Could a diploid cell from your liver form into a separate human being on it's own, besides a liver cell or whichever is part of one's being? Sperm & Ova are haploid, that is why killing sperm is different than killing an embryo and the comparison is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Robtard
The EMC is an exception to contraception as it prevents life from starting at a later time than say a condom. But at it's core, it is far different than an abortion.

at the same time (correct my if i'm mistaken) i understand that it is also capable of killing a newly fertilized egg, thus all the bad stigma surrounding it

Originally posted by Robtard
Could a diploid cell from your liver form into a separate human being on it's own, besides a liver cell or whichever is part of one's being? Sperm & Ova are haploid, that is why killing sperm is different than killing an embryo and the comparison is ridiculous.

Originally posted by lord xyz
That's not what I'm saying. Killing = murder. And to me life begins at birth not fertilisation. So our argument is about two different things unfortunatley.

Alright and I do disagree that life begins prior to birth.

Originally posted by PVS
at the same time (correct my if i'm mistaken) i understand that it is also capable of killing a newly fertilized egg, thus all the bad stigma surrounding it

Originally posted by PVS
at the same time (correct my if i'm mistaken) i understand that it is also capable of killing a newly fertilized egg, thus all the bad stigma surrounding it

I am not super familiar with the exacts of it. But yes, that seems to be one of the possibilities.

Edit- I stand corrected, Xmarkthespot said it does not.

Originally posted by Robtard
I am not super familiar with the exacts of it. But yes, that seems to be one of the possibilities.

Edit- I stand corrected, Xmarkthespot said it does not.

Originally posted by Robtard
Alright and I do disagree that life begins prior to birth.

Originally posted by lord xyz
That's fine. But when do you think life begins, fertilisation, when it's first classed as an embryo, when it develops awareness or when it has a central nervous system, or other?

My opinion, life begins when the egg is successfully fertilized, it successfully implants itself and development begins.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No you're not mistaken. That's pretty much what I've been trying to convey for about 4 posts. The zygote may be expelled due to failure to implant as a result of EBC contraception, effectively killing it. Naturally many fertilised zygotes fail to implant and are expelled, effectively being "killed".

If implantation has not been achieved than for all technical purposes "human life" hasn't begun; test tubes aside, a fertilized egg needs implantation to feed and develop. It seems like the EMC is similar to a condom as it prevents life from starting instead of killing life after is has already begun. No?

Originally posted by Robtard
My opinion, life begins when the egg is successfully fertilized, it successfully implants itself and development begins.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If the nucleus was extracted and microinjected into an emptied ovum, then given a small voltage, yes.

You're going to extremes (cloning) to try and prove that contraception is essentially abortion... If that is what you are trying to do.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're going to extremes (cloning) to try and prove that contraception is essentially abortion... If that is what you are trying to do.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Development has already begun upon fertilization. Between fertilisation and implantation/formation of conceptus takes days.

Yes, but life cannot proceed without implantation, test tubes aside. As you said, many times the zygotes fail to attach and the woman experiences something similar to a heavy menstruation.

That is why if this is how the EMC pill works it is more akin to contraception than it is to an abortion.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, but life cannot proceed without implantation, test tubes aside. As you said, many times the zygotes fail to attach and the woman experiences something similar to a heavy menstruation.

That is why if this is how the EMC pill works it is more akin to contraception than it is to an abortion.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No I'm simply showing that the description of abortion as a killing of human life is a fallacious argument. The cloning thing was just snarkiness.

You're comparing something which is essentially unnatural (cloning) as being the equivalent of the natural fertilization, implantation and gestation.

There are far better ways to agrue that an abortion is not killing a human life.