Abortion

Originally posted by geshien
perhaps but, that's a poor excuse considering anybody could be born with defects. the gene that carries such behaviours isn't always present nor is it always a dominant trait.

Originally posted by geshien
[Bnever said, in that case, that it was. and unlike the child, the woman does have a choice.[/B]

Originally posted by geshien
how so? women who are irresponsible that get pregnant and get abortions isn't a relevant issue? even when they so clearly don't care and have any excuse to explain themselves other than being a nympho?

Originally posted by geshien
so you're implying we have enough children as it is? that's your driving point?

it's merely a suggestion. you needn't be so hostel.

Originally posted by geshien
grow up. you're entitled to your opinion but you try and act so superior, you just come across sounding like an ass.

Originally posted by geshien
ironically, i do feel that women should have the choice. i think it's just another form of suppression and sexism for such a thing to be. i just would like to see them make what, i feel, is the right choice. if they don't then it's just sad but it's not the end of the world.

Originally posted by geshien
you don't have to agree with me but don't expect me to bend on this and don't insult my intelligence with tactfully condescending retort.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Yes, in my opinion

Then should we defend ourselves when someone threatens our life, even if that means killing them?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then should we defend ourselves when someone threatens our life, even if that means killing them?

That is up to you...that is up to the individual. You don't have to kill someone to disarm them.

However, it is the right of the individual victim to choose how they will handle this. For example, if Bobby tries to kill me, and he is beyond all ability of negotiation, and this is a rapid life or death situation....he has forfitted his right to life by aiming to destroy mine.

Well....let's not say right to life..everyone has the right to live. He has forfitted my respect for his life, by not respecting my life. If he gives me no other choice, than life or death, I have every right to make my choice.

I will choose life. If that means I am also choosing his death, then so be it. He compelled me to make this decision. I would have never made this decision otherwise.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
That is up to you...that is up to the individual. You don't have to kill someone to disarm them.

However, it is the right of the individual victim to choose how they will handle this. For example, if Bobby tries to kill me, and he is beyond all ability of negotiation, and this is a rapid life or death situation....he has forfitted his right to life by aiming to destroy mine.

Well....let's not say right to life..everyone has the right to live. He has forfitted my respect for his life, by not respecting my life. If he gives me no other choice, than life or death, I have every right to make my choice.

I will choose life. If that means I am also choosing his death, then so be it. He compelled me to make this decision. I would have never made this decision otherwise.

I agree.

It all comes down to intent. If a mother kills her unborn child for selfish reasons, then the karma from that action will manifest its self in her life.

But let me give you another perspective; I believe in reincarnation, so, from an unborn child's point of view, which do you think would be better; a short life in the womb, or being born into poverty to mother who does not want you?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I would like to know your opinion; is abortion the taking of a human life?

depends on the timing. i define human life as a human sentient being. one which is conscious and experiences/feels/functions in its mind, which begins in the womb late term.
i also refuse to personify a small bundle of cells and feign care for it.

Originally posted by Schecter
depends on the timing. i define human life as a human sentient being. one which is conscious and experiences/feels/functions in its mind, which begins in the womb late term.
i also refuse to personify a small bundle of cells and feign care for it.

I don't disagree with you, but why is that even important. I believe that all morality belongs to the people, and we give to the government only that which we deem necessary. Reproduction, and everything that goes with it, is something I do not believe belongs to the government.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I agree.

It all comes down to intent. If a mother kills her unborn child for selfish reasons, then the karma from that action will manifest its self in her life.

Assuming Karma exists....it seems as though horrible things happen to good people for no reason...it also seems that often bad people get away with some really hurtful things they have done.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But let me give you another perspective; I believe in reincarnation, so, from an unborn child's point of view, which do you think would be better; a short life in the womb, or being born into poverty to mother who does not want you?

A short life in the Womb is most likely better. I would rather Die in Heaven, then Live In Hell.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Assuming Karma exists....it seems as though horrible things happen to good people for no reason...it also seems that often bad people get away with some really hurtful things they have done.

A short life in the Womb is most likely better. I would rather Die in Heaven, then Live In Hell.

Sorry, my friend, but you have a Christian idea about Karma. Karma is not a balancing game, and life is not fair.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sorry, my friend, but you have a Christian idea about Karma. Karma is not a balancing game, and life is not fair.

1) No I do not....Hitler is responsible for the deaths and suffering of over millions of people. He died with a bullet in his head. A peaceful death. We have no idea if he exists now, in any way, shape, or form. We have no idea what path he is on. Innocent people have suffered far worse than he had.

If one is responsible for what happens to him or herself, then that means that all one person endures is of his or her own doing. That is not absolutely true. There are factors beyond our control and ability to prevent.

I do not beleive in "natural justice". There is no such thing. Innocent animals die fallen prey to stronger animals. Bad things happen to people and animals...not because they deserved it, not because it had to happen, not because they are being punished...they JUST HAPPEN.

If a woman commits Abortion for selfish reasons, there is no guarantee that she will suffer for it. She may live just fine after that, with absolutely no negative consequence for her action. Or maybe she will suffer...who knows. No one does...

2) Life is not fair...it's not unfair either.....Life is a phenomena, not an entity. Adjectives like Fair and Unfair cannot be factually attributed to Life. Only to people. It's people who are fair or unfair. Not Life. Life just is....

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
1) No I do not....Hitler is responsible for the deaths and suffering of over millions of people. He died with a bullet in his head. A peaceful death. We have no idea if he exists now, in any way, shape, or form. We have no idea what path he is on. Innocent people have suffered far worse than he had.

If one is responsible for what happens to him or herself, then that means that all one person endures is of his or her own doing. That is not absolutely true. There are factors beyond our control and ability to prevent.

Trust me, you are not talking about Karma; you are talking about revenge.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I do not beleive in "natural justice". There is no such thing. Innocent animals die fallen prey to stronger animals. Bad things happen to people and animals...not because they deserved it, not because it had to happen, not because they are being punished...they JUST HAPPEN. [/B]

And Karma is not natural justice.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If a woman commits Abortion for selfish reasons, there is no guarantee that she will suffer for it. She may live just fine after that, with absolutely no negative consequence for her action. Or maybe she will suffer...who knows. No one does... [/B]

I never said she would be punished.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
2) Life is not fair...it's not unfair either.....Life is a phenomena, not an entity. Adjectives like Fair and Unfair cannot be factually attributed to Life. Only to people. It's people who are fair or unfair. Not Life. Life just is.... [/B]

I was using an expression.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You agree with me, so we can drop this point.

Lawfully, no it's not.

I am not acting superior. I only presented contradictory evidence and you got offended.

....so you agree with me.

Noone insulted you. Stop being defensive.

first off no. i said "perhaps" because in fairness anything is possible.

lawfully?i never stated a thing about law concerning people and their morals. i'm saying it's immoral that some women do that.

i am being defensive because you wrote to me in such a manner that i felt was disrespectful. perhaps it's just a tone i picked up that infact wasn't there. if so, i apologize (then again if you did intend it i wouldn't expect you to admit it). and no i don't agree with you.

i feel that women shouldn't be restricted by such laws. the only time i support abortion is if the fetus threatens the life of the mother and the fetus itself could possibly die. in circumstances like that i do believe that abortion is an acceptable action.

otherswise it is the mothers choice, and people make wrong choices in that matter imo. i don't think it's evil i just don't agree with it. i don't feel strongly enough about the matter to be up in arms about it but, i certainly don't support it.

either way, nothing you presented i felt was reason enough to support abortion.

you can choose to reply to me again but i'm done on this matter.

Originally posted by geshien
and no i don't agree with you.

Originally posted by geshien

ironically, i do feel that women should have the choice.

Why should a mother decide on what's best for baby when she wants to murder he or she?Why should that be a choice?That sounds like deciding should I kill myself today or stay alive.Same thing.jm

I go both ways with abortion.

It's okay because, some times when I'm feeling negative, I feel that life really sucks. To me, that worst part of life is just living it. It's more suffering then it is anything else. I wouldn't wish life on my worst enemy. And If it's anything like mine, I wouldn't want to put my own flesh and blood through it. Especially if the baby is gonna have serious medical complications.

Then again, some times I feel that life is great and that everyone deserves a chance at it, even if it gets hard some times. People are basically terminating babies, the most precious creatures on this earth. I don't want something I created to be put in the hands of some doctor and he take more control over it than I ever have and I'm the one who made it. My very own creation be destroyed by some one who had nothing to do with it's creation. The baby is my problem so I should handle it on my own.

What ever happened to giving the baby up for adoption?

Originally posted by King Nothing
What ever happened to giving the baby up for adoption?

People sometimes feel abortion is the better option. Nothing wrong with that.

-AC

That is what brothers me Abortion being an option. Why should killing a baby be an option?That is like saying(I know I use this alot)I am going to kill that person over there, it is the same thing as killing a baby!It is not the baby's fault for being born it is there parents.So again why should the baby be the one punished?and killed for the stake of the sin there parents made or whatever.jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Why should a mother decide on what's best for baby when she wants to murder he or she?Why should that be a choice?That sounds like deciding should I kill myself today or stay alive.Same thing.jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
That is what brothers me Abortion being an option. Why should killing a baby be an option?That is like saying(I know I use this alot)I am going to kill that person over there,

You see, killing "that person over there" actually IS murder. Now, I'm starting to see why some people are confused.

Originally posted by StyleTime
485 pages and people are still coming back to this "abortion is murder" nonsense. How many times does someone have to explain that they are wholly separate issues?

No, it's [b]not like killing "that person over there."

You see, killing "that person over there" actually IS murder. Now, I'm starting to see why some people are confused. [/B]

yes, people keep coming back to "abortion is murder." just like the pro choicers keep coming back to "it's a womans right."

whatever stand you take, you are going to take flak because of it.

I say abortion must be legal. And you can choose to keep yours, I can choose not to keep mine. It's all about freedom, no one should have the right to tell me, you or anyone what to do. Like China's one-child policy.
(It's Wiki-knowledge.)

"In reality, though having one child has been promoted as ideal and the limit has been strongly enforced in urban areas, the actual implementation varies from location to location. In most rural areas, families are allowed to have two children, if the first child is female, or disabled. Second children are subject to birth spacing (usually 3 or 4 years). Additional children may result in fines. The families are required to pay economic penalties, and might be denied bonuses at their workplace..."

So I'm happy living in a country where I can choose and I'm not forced about the way I live my own life.

No one does have the right to say do this or do that.But in fact the goverment says stuff to do all the time, we have been taken away our freedom of speech by not being allowing to saying that I don't argee with gay people or freedom of Religon by saying pray in a public school or have an easter bunny at school or a tree for goodies stake.
Sure no one cares about that.But they do care that they get to kill a baby instead. Is this fair for the baby?Are you really doing what you want to do or just because you can you will do it?jm