So to summarize my point
I don't think Beyond Superman has done damage to the AM means much to Barry's feat
Because whether you just go by this specific comic, Barry knocks AM across the Multiverse and AM can't find his bearings with punches that capable of casually deforming space-time
Or go by history. The IMPs has history that shows how powerful they are. AM has history to show how durable and powerful he is.
So you chalk it up to PIS for Beyond Superman damaging AM or Barry weakened AM so others can hurt him later or Beyond Superman just that powerful or whatever really don't affect Barry's feat
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998I appreciate your attempt to summarize your point but this post is confusing to me. I understand I probably missed the entire conversation but I recommend you state your position rather than reiterate competing arguments.
So to summarize my pointI don't think Beyond Superman has done damage to the AM means much to Barry's feat
Because whether you just go by this specific comic, Barry knocks AM across the Multiverse and AM can't find his bearings with punches that capable of casually deforming space-time
Barry BFRed Anti-Monitor across several, if not dozens, of those New 52 universes until he did regain his footing and was well on his way to killing Barry. Barry tanking several direct blasts seems to be a forgotten feat here.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998I caution conflating history with present. There’s no reason to even think he’s at his peak COIE levels there. There’s good reason to assume he’s not. Barry was looking for Anti-Monitor in the wake of Dark Crisis. It’s not like he traveled to the past and fought COIE Anti-Monitor.
Or go by history. The IMPs has history that shows how powerful they are. AM has history to show how durable and powerful he is.So you chalk it up to PIS for Beyond Superman damaging AM or Barry weakened AM so others can hurt him later or Beyond Superman just that powerful or whatever really don't affect Barry's feat
Originally posted by ODG
I appreciate your attempt to summarize your point but this post is confusing to me. I understand I probably missed the entire conversation but I recommend you state your position rather than reiterate competing arguments.Barry BFRed Anti-Monitor across several, if not dozens, of those New 52 universes until he did regain his footing and was well on his way to killing Barry. Barry tanking several direct blasts seems to be a forgotten feat here. I caution conflating history with present. There’s no reason to even think he’s at his peak COIE levels there. There’s good reason to assume he’s not. Barry was looking for Anti-Monitor in the wake of Dark Crisis. It’s not like he traveled to the past and fought COIE Anti-Monitor.
So I argue that you interpret the Beyond Superman case as PIS, or Barry weakened AM so others can hurt him later or Beyond Superman just that powerful or whatever really don't affect Barry's feat
And for the feat that Barry tanked the blasts of AM, I also mentioned before
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I'm little surprised that nobody( as far as I saw) brings the fact Barry withstands Anti-Monitor attacks that blast him to bounce around realities/universesAnd Barry seems no worse for wear, given he later still was capable of fighting AM along with other heroes
Also this scan I posted it's after the Dawn of Time fight, I thought AM isn't at his peak anymore since if he was, he would again traveled to the Dawn of Time and changed history, no?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998I see. But why is Beyond Superman's punch more notable than Bat Lantern's slice???
I didn't reply to you actually. The whole discussion begun with Beyond Superman damaging AM's armor, hence Barry's feat isn't that impressiveSo I argue that you interpret the Beyond Superman case as PIS, or Barry weakened AM so others can hurt him later or Beyond Superman just that powerful or whatever really don't affect Barry's feat
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998Whether one would believe SW Anti-Monitor or Mobius Anti-Monitor was weaker, his anti-matter blasts have historically one-shot killed most everybody. So Barry tanking several was baffling.
And for the feat that Barry tanked the blasts of AM, I also mentioned beforeAlso this scan I posted it's after the Dawn of Time fight, I thought AM isn't at his peak anymore since if he was, he would again traveled to the Dawn of Time and changed history, no?
But I just re-read some of the fight, others on the team tanked anti-matter blasts too and were still in the fight. So this version of Anti-Monitor definitely ain't at his peak.
Originally posted by ODG
I see. But why is Beyond Superman's punch more notable than Bat Lantern's slice??? Whether one would believe SW Anti-Monitor or Mobius Anti-Monitor was weaker, his anti-matter blasts have historically one-shot killed most everybody. So Barry tanking several was baffling.But I just re-read some of the fight, others on the team tanked anti-matter blasts too and were still in the fight. So this version of Anti-Monitor definitely ain't at his peak.
I presume you're speaking about his character portray not in-universe point when talking about his peak?
Because from what I know, he was Monitor(whom powered by the entire Multiverse)'s equal in his base form, and his blast also seems pretty equal to Monitor's
Originally posted by Galan007
COIE AM was already equal to a multiversal power BEFORE he even began destroying the mainstream multiverse...Remember, the original Monitor was linked to, and powered by, ALL positive matter universes throughout the infinite pre-crisis multiverse. That's why he became increasingly weaker with each positive matter universe that AM destroyed:
Despite the fact that Monitor possessed FULLY multiversal power, Anti-Monitor...at his absolute WEAKEST levels, mind you...was still his EQUAL:
. A war in which there could be no victor..."
"And so they began a war which lasted one million years. A war waged with [b]equal power
[/B]
Although I feel we're just splitting hairs at this point, since we basically agree in most the main points.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998By the time Anti-Monitor was BFRed his armor was completely f'ed up. So I still don't understand why Beyond Superman was anymore exceptional than the rest of the team when the others on the team were wrecking his armor also.
Don't know "shrugs"
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998Again, I caution conflating history with present.
I presume you're speaking about his character portray not in-universe point when talking about his peak?
Because from what I know, he was Monitor(whom powered by the entire Multiverse)'s equal in his base form, and his blast also seems pretty equal to Monitor'sAlthough I feel we're just splitting hairs at this point, since we basically agree in most the main points.
Given that neither SC-era Anti-Monitor nor Mobius-era Anti-Monitor were at multiversal levels, the suggestion that this post-Dark Crisis Anti-Monitor was at multiversal levels is fallacy.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by ODG
^ Does Black Flash even care about anybody who aren't speedsters?Seems like self-sabotage to put him together with all the other Speedforce speedsters.
Its kinda cheating. Shouldn't be there at all. Black Flash is just Death.
https://imgur.com/HzfYnQG
In Final Crisis Wally mentions outrunning The Racer before as Black Flash.
https://imgur.com/gallery/uNwQRxI
Then in Rebirth, they mention they used Black Flash against Darkseid, when it was Racer they used.
https://imgur.com/gallery/7qIhyz8
Its just how they view Death.