Originally posted by lawest9
Nastiest versions of both determined to kill the other, who takes this?
Nastiest would be drunk Superman wrecker.
People will say Superman was mind controlled by Eradicator, but this actually works in Lobo's favor as Eradicator made Superman more brutal, and less restrained against hurting people.
Originally posted by cdtm
Nastiest would be drunk Superman wrecker.People will say Superman was mind controlled by Eradicator, but this actually works in Lobo's favor as Eradicator made Superman more brutal, and less restrained against hurting people.
Did you even read the comic? Eradicator had a negative impact. Lobo said Superman fights like a butler, Superman said said he can't out brawl Lobo but even Bibbo could outsmart Lobo, Superman said science must preval over Lobo's barbarism, and when he outsmarted Lobo, celebrated that science prevailed.
So instead of trying to out face punch Lobo, Eradicator made him out science Lobo. The same writer had Superman do far better without Eradicator's influence later on.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Did you even read the comic? Eradicator had a negative impact. Lobo said Superman fights like a butler, Superman said said he can't out brawl Lobo but even Bibbo could outsmart Lobo, Superman said science must preval over Lobo's barbarism, and when he outsmarted Lobo, celebrated that science prevailed.So instead of trying to out face punch Lobo, Eradicator made him out science Lobo. The same writer had Superman do far better without Eradicator's influence later on.
I read the whole era, and the Eradicator story more then most. He fought fine:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-77bd0f342dc62238515366745c8340ef-pjlq
Lobo was drunk and bragging it up,.as drunks do. Superman near crippled regular people, almost murdered Draaga:
Bottom line, Superman in his right mind would have gotten handled by this version of Lobo just as easily, because as you can see Eradicator did not make him hold back one bit. It made him blood lusted.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Strange considering Lobo has great science and tech feats.Certainly more than Black Adam and the Wisdom of Zehuti.
Remember, he was drunk!
And all he really did was set a Kryptonian battle suit on auto pilot, pretended to be in it, and let Lobo think he completed his hit by blowing it up.
Originally posted by cdtm
I read the whole era, and the Eradicator story more then most. He fought fine:https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-77bd0f342dc62238515366745c8340ef-pjlq
Lobo was drunk and bragging it up,.as drunks do. Superman near crippled regular people, almost murdered Draaga:
Bottom line, Superman in his right mind would have gotten handled by this version of Lobo just as easily, because as you can see Eradicator did not make him hold back one bit. It made him blood lusted.
You're not only ignoring the comic, you're failing to understand that cold and brutal don't actually mean you can fight. For example, if you're cruel and brutal to puppies and kittens and kick them around, that won't mean shit that you're cold and brutal to them when I come and beat the f uck out if you because I know how to fight.
Here Lobo actually comments on Superman fighting poorly saying he fights like a butler.
Superman says he can't out brawl Lobo, but even Bibbo could outsmart him.
The scan you posted, the full page where he talks about having weapons, he says he can't out brawl Lobo but even Bibbo cam outsmart him. Here, first panel.
When I pointed out Superman said science must prevail over Lobo's barbarism? He also says it's the Kryptonian way.
Or this--
"--and SCIENCE--has once again triumphed over raw, brute force." "As inebriated as Lobo was, it was easy to conclude that trickery might prove more effective than fighting."
So Superman keeps talking about out science-ing Lobo, instead of out face punching Lobo. And yet the same writer had Superman do better face punching a sober Lobo, at least twice, when not influenced by the Eradicator.
So no, your argument doesn't hold water. Your argument about Draaga is also invalid as Superman was already his superior. He had already beaten Draaga, no Eradicator influence I recall, while weakened from solar energy deprivation on Warworld. Hence my analogy about you kicking puppies and kittens around. It doesn't matter how much better a fight a puppy or kitten is than you when you can toss them across the room. That's why I have to kick your ass for them, I can fight better than you AND you can't throw me across the room, you cold and brutal ass hole. sneer
Originally posted by Delta1938
You're not only ignoring the comic, you're failing to understand that cold and brutal don't actually mean you can fight. For example, if you're cruel and brutal to puppies and kittens and kick them around, that won't mean shit that you're cold and brutal to them when I come and beat the f uck out if you because I know how to fight.Here Lobo actually comments on Superman fighting poorly saying he fights like a butler.
Superman says he can't out brawl Lobo, but even Bibbo could outsmart him.
The scan you posted, the full page where he talks about having weapons, he says he can't out brawl Lobo but even Bibbo cam outsmart him. Here, first panel.
When I pointed out Superman said science must prevail over Lobo's barbarism? He also says it's the Kryptonian way.
Or this--
"--and SCIENCE--has once again triumphed over raw, brute force." "As inebriated as Lobo was, it was easy to conclude that trickery might prove more effective than fighting."
So Superman keeps talking about out science-ing Lobo, instead of out face punching Lobo. And yet the same writer had Superman do better face punching a sober Lobo, at least twice, when not influenced by the Eradicator.
So no, your argument doesn't hold water. Your argument about Draaga is also invalid as Superman was already his superior. He had already beaten Draaga, no Eradicator influence I recall, while weakened from solar energy deprivation on Warworld. Hence my analogy about you kicking puppies and kittens around. It doesn't matter how much better a fight a puppy or kitten is than you when you can toss them across the room. That's why I have to kick your ass for them, I can fight better than you AND you can't throw me across the room, you cold and brutal ass hole. sneer
I literally just showed scans of Superman fighting him. The first thing Superman does is this:
Does he look like he's holding back as he flies straight into the sky, slams him through the floor, hits him after slamming him, then uses heat vision on him?
What, you think he was holding back? Pulling his punches? More to the point, what would a non Eradicator Superman have done better?
Lobo's a brawler. He out brawled Captain Marvel and Guy Gardner. Big Barda, a warriors warrior, had to bfr him.
And Superman specifically failed to impress Lobo in their rematch:
Superman, without any of the pesky Eradicator brainwashing holding him back, still needed to outsmart Lobo. In the pages of L.E.G.I.O.N. 90, when it was Lobo who was mind controlled by Brainiac (Since you argue all mind control is a detriment), Superman still needed to use trickery just to keep him off him.
Originally posted by cdtmalthough as somebody just pointed out...
Bottom line, Superman in his right mind would have gotten handled by this version of Lobo just as easily, because as you can see Eradicator did not make him hold back one bit. It made him blood lusted.
Originally posted by cdtm
Bloodlust against an experienced warrior and casual killer can work against you though. Makes you predictable.
Originally posted by cdtm
I literally [b]just showed scans of Superman fighting him. The first thing Superman does is this:Does he look like he's holding back as he flies straight into the sky, slams him through the floor, hits him after slamming him, then uses heat vision on him?
What, you think he was holding back? Pulling his punches? More to the point, what would a non Eradicator Superman have done better?
Lobo's a brawler. He out brawled Captain Marvel and Guy Gardner. Big Barda, a warriors warrior, had to bfr him.
And Superman specifically failed to impress Lobo in their rematch:
Superman, without any of the pesky Eradicator brainwashing holding him back, still needed to outsmart Lobo. In the pages of L.E.G.I.O.N. 90, when it was Lobo who was mind controlled by Brainiac (Since you argue all mind control is a detriment), Superman still needed to use trickery just to keep him off him. [/B]
Are you even reading what I'm saying? I guess you've only fought puppies and kittens because you don't realize just because you can bully them around doesn't mean you'll win a fight when not holding back against an actual person.
They specifically emphasized that Superman was fighting poorly. I don't know if you're making a strawman or just genuinely not understanding what I said. Fighting poorly and holding back are NOT the same thing.
Superman failed to impress Lobo? Nice cropping the scan to not show what happens next.
Now as to your argument about fighting a mind controlled Lobo in L.E.G.I.O.N., I don't remember all the details but you left out Lobo wasn't mind controlled the entire time, Superman noted this. I don't know if they made it clear how long, Lobo fought anyways even without the mind control. I don't remember the issue number so would have to dig to check. Anyways not only that, but you're making a false equivalency. I pointed out it was explicitly mentioned Superman was fighting poorly, and Superman said he can't out brawl Lobo and has to out science Lobo. And that this is the Kryptonian way. Which is the influence Eradicator had. The very same writer had Superman do far better without that influence, hence your false equivalency on the issue of L.E.G.I.O.N., which I'd have to check.
Originally posted by Smurph
although as somebody just pointed out...
On top of it his argument about Superman nearly killing Draaga in this state is irrelevant, Superman without Eradicator influence but weakened had already defeated Draaga on Warworld. So him being brutal and cold and full powered somehow means he was more effective because he nearly killed someone he previously beat while weakened. 😬
Originally posted by Smurph
although as somebody just pointed out...
And I stand by that. Eradicated Superman was far more aggressive, but also less flexible.
However, against Lobo, it's disingenuous to argue his brainwashing was an impediment when the topic is "beating Lobo down", and we have on panel proof of Superman trying, and failing, to beat Lobo down.
This was part for early 90's Lobo. Captain Marvel and even Despero could not "Beat Lobo down". He simply soaked up any damage coming his way, without a stagger or stun effect, and never seemed to wear down much.
Except against Vril Dox, ironically.
Black Adam is good, but not better then Despero. If Despero can one shot herald levelers yet only get a "not bad" from Lobo, Adam isn't beating him up.
Originally posted by cdtm
And I stand by that. Eradicated Superman was far more aggressive, but also less flexible.However, against Lobo, it's disingenuous to argue his brainwashing was an impediment when the topic is "beating Lobo down", and we have on panel proof of Superman trying, and failing, to beat Lobo down.
This was part for early 90's Lobo. Captain Marvel and even Despero could not "Beat Lobo down". He simply soaked up any damage coming his way, without a stagger or stun effect, and never seemed to wear down much.
Except against Vril Dox, ironically.
Black Adam is good, but not better then Despero. If Despero can one shot herald levelers yet only get a "not bad" from Lobo, Adam isn't beating him up.
Oh, and Eclipsed Superman.
Which happened, but is contradictory with his other showings.