Voidtry vs World Breaker Hulk

Started by carver911 pages

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Simple. There are two factors why Hulk caused so much destruction.

Dormammu not destroying it means nothing. He has low showings,does he not( hello, Magik!)? Collateral damage isn't ALWAYS a guide to how powerful someone is/durability of something, as you say.

So all of his fights in the Dark Dimension are low showings along with other powerful entities like Eternity?

Who said collateral damage is a guide? What I am saying is, you and ABHI are referencing the Dark Dimension as weak since Hulk destroyed it. Why didn't Eternity, the Avengers or Shuma destroy it during their fights? Why is it a low showing for them not destroying it but when it is destroyed by Hulk, matter had something to do with it? Would it not be a beastly showing for Hulk since he achieved results others didn't. There's plenty of examples where you agree with this concept..

Originally posted by carver9
So all of his fights in the Dark Dimension are low showings along with other powerful entities like Eternity?

Who said collateral damage is a guide? What I am saying is, you and ABHI are referencing the Dark Dimension as weak since Hulk destroyed it. Why didn't Eternity, the Avengers or Shuma destroy it during their fights? Why is it a low showing for them not destroying it but when it is destroyed by Hulk, matter had something to do with it? Would it not be a beastly showing for Hulk since he achieved results others didn't. There's plenty of examples where you agree with this concept..

Erm, you are. You're using collateral damage as a guide - WBH achieved more collateral damage than Dormammu etc, so he's more powerful.

I'm not saying it's weak. I'm saying it's weakER than 616 matter. Actually, I'M not saying it, Marvel themselves said it, in a canon comic. If it has been retconned, then post the scan. Otherwise, it's still valid and canon.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm, you are. You're using collateral damage as a guide - WBH achieved more collateral damage than Dormammu etc, so he's more powerful.

I'm not saying it's weak. I'm saying it's weakER than 616 matter. Actually, [b]I'M not saying it, Marvel themselves said it, in a canon comic. If it has been retconned, then post the scan. Otherwise, it's still valid and canon. [/B]

I never once said Hulk is more powerful than Dormammu. My question is simple, if matter there is weak, why didn't the entire area explode when other powerful entities fought there? It's a basic question. You can't discredit every showing as a low showing because you don't like the results. When Shuma was in the Dark Dimension fighting the Avengers, why didn't sh** blow up? Matter is always weak there so it should've happened. Or, did the writer not think of this? Explain please. If the writer knew matter was weak in this Dimension, why wouldn't Strange and Dormammu fight destroy it or Eternity or Shuma or the Avengers?

Originally posted by carver9
I never once said Hulk is more powerful than Dormammu. My question is simple, if matter there is weak, why didn't the entire area explode when other powerful entities fought there? It's a basic question. You can't discredit every showing as a low showing because you don't like the results. When Shuma was in the Dark Dimension fighting the Avengers, why didn't sh** blow up? Matter is always weak there so it should've happened. Or, did the writer not think of this? Explain please. If the writer knew matter was weak in this Dimension, why wouldn't Strange and Dormammu fight destroy it or Eternity or Shuma or the Avengers?

Same way the Beyonder didn't destroy that apartment? If there's no explanation, then it's PIS.

Originally posted by zopzop
Remember Beyonder's multiversal busting attack against Molecule Man that didn't even wreck Marsha's apartment? According to Carvster, the WBH feat is more impressive cause it wrecked parts of the Dark Dimension LOL.

Pretty much.

It's canon that the DD is more fragile.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same way the Beyonder didn't destroy that apartment? If there's no explanation, then it's PIS.

Pretty much.

It's canon that the DD is more fragile.

There is an explanation IF that universe/Dimension is weak.

It's canon that nothing destroyed it outside of Hulk, even Dormammu going all out.

We have canon on panel proof from Superman himself saying he can't go the speed of light but ya didn't accept it. More than one statement at that.

Originally posted by carver9
There is an explanation IF that universe/Dimension is weak.

It's canon that nothing destroyed it outside of Hulk, even Dormammu going all out.


Then you're back to collateral damage being used as if it's a reliable guide.

When it's not. As you yourself said, it can SOMETIMES be used as a guide. So what makes you decide when it can or cannot be used?

Originally posted by carver9
We have canon on panel proof from Superman himself saying he can't go the speed of light but ya didn't accept it. More than one statement at that.

Superman is not in this thread, but he is also on panel shown to have mental blocks, so ..yeah.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman is not in this thread, but he is also on panel shown to have mental blocks, so ..yeah.

That's an excuse. We have scenes of him saying he can not go such speeds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then you're back to collateral damage being used as if it's a reliable guide.

When it's not. As you yourself said, it can SOMETIMES be used as a guide. So what makes you decide when it can or cannot be used?

We are either going to say the Dark Dimension is weaker all of the time or not. There's no in between. With that said, Shuma, Strange, The Avengers, Dormammu, Eternity, none of them caused nearly as much destruction to that Dimension during their fights. No way around this.

I never said I have rights on when it can or can not be used.

Originally posted by carver9
We are either going to say the Dark Dimension is weaker all of the time or not. There's no in between. With that said, Shuma, Strange, The Avengers, Dormammu, Eternity, none of them caused nearly as much destruction to that Dimension during their fights. No way around this.

I never said I have rights on when it can or can not be used.


But you're getting it backwards.

If the DD is said, in a canon comic, to be weaker, it doesn't matter what happens in other comics, if It hasn't been retconned.

If other comics just show contradictory evidence, without an explicit retcon, it's PIS. Simple as. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Look, if you have a more recent, canon comic saying it's the same as Earth, then I wil concede. But without it, all you have is writer error.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did you? Including that his destructive ability was potentially limited only to the Dark Dimension and his enemies in that specific scenario, and isn't extendable to a forum fight?
Prove it. Prove that his destructive ability was limited only to the Dark Dimension and also his enemies in that specific scenario.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

If other comics just show contradictory evidence, without an explicit retcon, it's PIS.

I disagree with that. There are contradictions everywhere in comics without being PIS.

You are basically saying contradiction = PIS in all circumstances.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But you're getting it backwards.

If the DD is said, in a canon comic, to be weaker, it doesn't matter what happens in other comics, if It hasn't been retconned.

If other comics just show contradictory evidence, without an explicit retcon, it's PIS. Simple as. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Look, if you have a more recent, canon comic saying it's the same as Earth, then I wil concede. But without it, all you have is writer error.

Then we need to keep that stance with all characters. Superman saying Darkseid is the only being that can destroy Worlds. Hulk being the strongest being in the Universe. Ironman saying that his Celestial armor, yes, the one he had stored that took on the Celestials, isn't powerful enough to stop Hulk. Thor saying Hulk may posses more raw strength than any living being...

https://ibb.co/TmLM92J

Hulk is one of the strongest beings in the Universe..

https://ibb.co/qrWrWZs

Hulk power is infinite (infinity). We have Beyonder reading Hulks power level and is saying his power is infinite. Canon, on panel. I'm sure infinite power can destroy Universes.

https://ibb.co/KGqwGrY

Hulk strength have no limits

https://ibb.co/Z12WxX8

Truly no limit to the Hulks power...

https://ibb.co/BNx1vBs

All canon, said on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
The Dark scan mention Dormammu changing the Dark Dimension to his liking, so posting those old a** scan is overdone by Dorm restructuring the Dark Dimension per his liking.

https://postlmg.cc/xkcDZcNR

Also, Doctor Strange has went all out again Dorm in this realm and the planet didn't suffer a scratch.


The book of Vishanti scan is from 2021.

Dormammu is a punk, what else is news?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm, you are. You're using collateral damage as a guide - WBH achieved more collateral damage than Dormammu etc, so he's more powerful.

I'm not saying it's weak. I'm saying it's weakER than 616 matter. Actually, [b]I'M not saying it, Marvel themselves said it, in a canon comic. If it has been retconned, then post the scan. Otherwise, it's still valid and canon. [/B]

not only as a guide but only in certain cases, as in when it helps his argument or is about the Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Then we need to keep that stance with all characters. Superman saying Darkseid is the only being that can destroy Worlds. Hulk being the strongest being in the Universe. Ironman saying that his Celestial armor, yes, the one he had stored that took on the Celestials, isn't powerful enough to stop Hulk. Thor saying Hulk may posses more raw strength than any living being...

https://ibb.co/TmLM92J

Hulk is one of the strongest beings in the Universe..

https://ibb.co/qrWrWZs

Hulk power is infinite (infinity). We have Beyonder reading Hulks power level and is saying his power is infinite. Canon, on panel. I'm sure infinite power can destroy Universes.

https://ibb.co/KGqwGrY

Hulk strength have no limits

https://ibb.co/Z12WxX8

Truly no limit to the Hulks power...

https://ibb.co/BNx1vBs

All canon, said on panel.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Hell, he was straight up stated to have infinite power.

No implications needed.


Infinite>>No limit, gotcha

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove it. Prove that his destructive ability was limited only to the Dark Dimension and also his enemies in that specific scenario.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And now that I have access to my PC, I will lay my argument out.

From the very start, we already knew Betty - in her unamped, normal state, was a match for Hulk durability-wise:

Bear this in mind as we read on.

It was established that the Wishing Well would take a circuitous route to give you [b]exactly what you actually want, but there would be consequences:

Now, Hulk wanted there to be no innocents around - the Well could have given him a barren world, but instead, it gave him a world full of guilty criminals to fight:

No matter. The Hulk loved it either way. As he himself says:

Look at that smile. He is loving it.

Confirmed by the Hulk himself, that it was time to fight and die (still with that shit-eating grin on his face):

And confirmed again by Strange. No one was going to survive - and that was the end that the Hulk wanted:

As he was surrounded by guilty criminals, he wanted them all to die, be resurrected, and die again. Over and over and over again. As a side-effect, Hulk too would die and be resurrected - because ArmCheddon wished that the Hulk would also suffer the same fate:

In short, the World breaking feat wasn't due to pure strength, but was due to Hulk wishing that everyone with him would die as he fought them, because they were all monsters, trapped together. The Wishing Well granted this wish, by having the entire realm be destroyed every time he fought.

Sure, there is *some* strength involved. Hulk still cut loose. My argument is that it could have been Alfred, completely cutting loose with his old-man strength, fighting a planet full of Martha Wayne corpses, and the end result would have been the same - planetary destruction.

Now, what happens when they get to Earth? Safe old Earth, filled with kittens and women and children and that sort of thing?

Remember, that Betty, without the Wishing Well amp, was already on the level of Hulk. Now she got amped by the Wishing Well. THEN she got hit by FFF's missiles (note her and WBH's size):
https://i.postimg.cc/HLsc6J1R/RCO017-1469401173.jpg

She grows to massive proportions, and casually stomps FFF (along with WBH):
https://i.postimg.cc/vZGcm1TT/RCO018-1469401173.jpg

A-bomb and She-Hulk were also amped - remember, they augmented the energy:
https://i.postimg.cc/W4WDC223/RCO015-1469401173.jpg

So we now have four gigantic Hulk beings duking it out on Earth, not holding back, completely insane with power:
https://i.postimg.cc/vZy66qqQ/RCO020-1469401173.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1tVzdwCC/RCO019-1469401173.jpg

Yet, not even a pickup truck nearby was harmed (I've circled how close Strange was to the fight, and the truck itself):

Of course, this could well just be the suspension of belief that EndlessMike was talking about. But the comic was clear in that one didn't need to articulate the wish out loud, verbally, for it to happen - Wendigo and Cho made wishes without saying them, for example. In other words, we don't need Hulk actually saying the words for it to have been a wish.

In short, the Hulk only had the power to destroy a world in the Dark Dimension, because the Well granted him the power to do so when there were no innocents around. Once he (and 3 others!) were on Earth, a planet filled with innocents, he (and the other 3) didn't destroy Earth.

All this ignores the whole 'gravity is wonky in the DD' argument. [/B]

'Ah, DS, you're using collateral damage, you phuck!!!!' I hear people cry.

Collateral damage is ALL WBH has. This is why I kept getting Carver to harp on about Dormammu and collateral damage. Either it counts, and he fails to do on Earth with a lot of help what he did in the DD, or it doesn't count and his DD feat is useless.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Ah, DS, I hear people cry.

*tumbleweed blows past*

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Ah, DS, you're using collateral damage, you phuck!!!!' I hear people cry.

Collateral damage is ALL WBH has. This is why I kept getting Carver to harp on about Dormammu and collateral damage. Either it counts, and he fails to do on Earth with a lot of help what he did in the DD, or it doesn't count and his DD feat is useless.

Why didn't Umar die?

Also, why didn't earth get destroyed when Superman punched World Forger. Also, Hawkgirl, she lived through the shock waves of the punch, why? Remember, he destroyed a planet right before that.

So if everyone was supposed to die around Hulk due to the wishing well, explain why Umar lived.