Re: Post flashpoint shazam vs superman.
Billy will always be written in at roughly the same ballpark as everyday Superman level and someone Supes doesn’t have to play light with. The problem is that he flat out doesn’t have the feats to contend in a vs battle setting. And also, when Superman is done playing he vaults several tiers past that level. He doesn’t really have an equal among conventional heros.
I believe the last time these two collided Superman manhandled King Shazam and Supergirl at the time as if they were unruly toddlers
Originally posted by Juntai
Billy will always be written in at roughly the same ballpark as everyday Superman level and someone Supes doesn’t have to play light with. The problem is that he flat out doesn’t have the feats to contend in a vs battle setting. And also, when Superman is done playing he vaults several tiers past that level. He doesn’t really have an equal among conventional heros.I believe the last time these two collided Superman manhandled King Shazam and Supergirl at the time as if they were unruly toddlers
Originally posted by StoicSo are you both advocating that we dwell on a character's grandest historic feats?
No one seems to understand that, hence all of the push back in Superman threads.
And their depiction relative to each other takes a big back seat to that?
Originally posted by ODG
So are you both advocating that we dwell on a character's grandest historic feats?And their depiction relative to each other takes a big back seat to that?
At their best isn't my rule. That seems to be what has been argued by most on this forum. For example, a Predator should have no chance against Wolverine in a forum setting, even though in the comics a Predator severely injured him.
Originally posted by ODGSuperman vaults to the top shelf constantly. In any random few years of comics you’ll find feats that match to outright dwarf other heros “grandest historic” feats. It’s just regular for him to do.
So are you both advocating that we dwell on a character's grandest historic feats?And their depiction relative to each other takes a big back seat to that?
That applies to most characters, lmmfao. It just happens more with Hulk and Superman. Heck, characters like Spiderman and Wolverine have fts in the high meta to Herald tier, on numerous of occasions. That doesn't mean that their strength, speed, etc... is consistently above that tier. Why does this rule only apply to Superman and not Batman or Wonder Woman. ESPECIALLY Batman. Batman have fts fat above meta tier. Cap does as well. Thor, Silver Surfer. All of these characters step above their tier, on a number of occasions. Also, Thor and Surfer fts >>> Captain Marvel and I feel confident none of you would say either of these characters pull a 10 out of 10 against him.
Originally posted by Juntai
When was the last herald Spidey took down? Wolverine?
When was the last universe+ destroyer that Hulk smacked around? Or the last skyfather type he punched out?How often do they do this?
Lots of characters have a great feat somewhere in history. Superman does it year in and out.
When was the last time Superman beat, Zod without no outside interference? Metallo. Hulk JUST took on a Celestial and stomped it. What universe destroyer did Superman beat up this year or last year? No amps, please.
Interesting specifics since Clark wasn’t the primary Superman for most of that time except in Action where he was powerless in Warworld. Then at the conclusion of that he had some kind of largely unspecified amp. Then we could look at Dark Crisis where he learned the world was fake before the others found him and amped himself off the energy and cut off Pariah and freed the others.
But if we were to add the third year on, he knocked out Barbatos with a punch. So even spending most of that span powerless and off of his titles he still has better feats.
Originally posted by carver9
That applies to most characters, lmmfao. It just happens more with Hulk and Superman. Heck, characters like Spiderman and Wolverine have fts in the high meta to Herald tier, on numerous of occasions. That doesn't mean that their strength, speed, etc... is consistently above that tier. Why does this rule only apply to Superman and not Batman or Wonder Woman. ESPECIALLY Batman. Batman have fts fat above meta tier. Cap does as well. Thor, Silver Surfer. All of these characters step above their tier, on a number of occasions. Also, Thor and Surfer fts >>> Captain Marvel and I feel confident none of you would say either of these characters pull a 10 out of 10 against him.
pr1983
As far as raw powers are concerned they're roughly the same.
Captain Marvel had planet- and star-displacing feats a full decade before Superman ever did, in staring in Captain Marvel Adventures #28. But the most notable feat was when the Marvel Family displaced "billions of stars" (and planets) the Marvel Family #61 to prevent a collision of galaxies, and this was also before Superman got any planet-level feats.
Ultimately is should come down to Superman's susceptibility to magic versus Captain Marvel's lack of experience.
@Jun... you mentioning power ups is not him defeating universal let alone Galaxy level beings.
Wait, with thr Barbatos showing, you do know in same story, Superman, Superboy Prime, Black Adam, Sinestro, Cyborg Superman and others, COMBINED, couldn't destroy a planet. Crazy thing, Superman said "give it everything you've got". Hopefully you're talking about something else.
Originally posted by Astner
As far as raw powers are concerned they're roughly the same.Captain Marvel had planet- and star-displacing feats a full decade before Superman ever did, in staring in Captain Marvel Adventures #28. But the most notable feat was when the Marvel Family displaced "billions of stars" (and planets) the Marvel Family #61 to prevent a collision of galaxies, and this was also before Superman got any planet-level feats.
Ultimately is should come down to Superman's susceptibility to magic versus Captain Marvel's lack of experience.
Be the hero KMC so desperately needs and start posting Steamboat scans 🙂
