How Is The Matrix Connected To The Bible.

Nick dont take this in a bad way. 🙂

But I will not debate with you over the goodnees or lack thereof of god.

I will let his record speak for him.

http://members.aye.net/~abrupt/house/godkill.html

Look up every example and you will see that the site is not lying.

the inquisition came at a time when the church was run by corrupt men. a dark page in our history, but history nonetheless.

God is not all about love. Ask yourself this question if god was all about love then where did sin/evil come from?

I bet the first thing that comes to your mind would be satan right??

Well look at these bible scriptures and then rethink your anwser.

John 1 1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

If this is correct then the creator of everything would be God/Jesus.
And if he is the creator of everything , than he also created Evil. If god knows everything and satan dosent , then it would be safe to say that god planted the idea of rebelion in his mind. The same way god planted it in Adam & Eve's mind in the garden.

Gen 1 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Then he says later:

Gen 2 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That was a set up. If god is all knowing and we are not, He knew we were going to eat the fruit.

Now I know you are going to say hey wait a second it was satan that tempted Eve, not God.

Keep this in mind satan dosent know everything like God does. So he's just as in the dark as we are concerning what god does behind the vail.

So you stated before that God is all about Love I disagree. There is a huge contrast between the Old & New testements version Of God.

OT he's a killer God.
NT he's a kinder loving God.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ/God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

If that is true there should be no differance between the OT and NT. But there is and that diff is the tern salvation. As I said before God is saying Its my way or the Hot highway. You have no other choices in life.

Heres an example of what I mean about no other choices. According to the bible. you just cant say to God, You know what Im not going to hell, and I dont want to waste my time in heaven. So ill just go over to " blank" and live out my eternity in peace.

"Blank" (what ever blank is) does not exsist because God didnt want it too. (That is just another example about how god has the upper hand, and uses it to his advantage). So there is really only two choices. heaven or hell. And that is a stacked deck, because god has his way in both instences. Our personal choice is really irrelevant.

So when ppl go around saying Satan is the ultimate evil I just say to myself, wow they dont read there own bible. For if they did They would know that God Is not all good or bad. Hes a mixture of both, just like mankind. So if god is going to judge us for our sins then He should be the first one to go to hell/the lake of fire, because he would be just as guilty of our sins. He created the Sin, judgement, and the penalty. We did not. Humans didnt ask to be placed in this world.

So why did God create humanity into a universe already heavily contaminated with sin?

The human race is not responsible for sin. Sin was ALREADY present in the universe when God created Adam and Eve. Satan and his evil angels had been sinning for some period of time, maybe a very long time, before Adam and Eve were created.

He created us for his enjoyment. To him its seems like one big game.

So is it?

Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."

Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

Or

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"

You be the judge. 🙂

See?...This is what I mean...Instead of being a healthy conversation about the movies...it becomes a battle on who knows more about the meanings in the psalms of the bible!! I don't understand it!...The bible was translated into soooo many different languages, which probably weren't even done correctly!...from one of the oldest languages on the planet!...Everyone has their own interpretations of what the bible says, and most of the passages in the book, r taken literally!, which I think should not be!...Read between the lines, and ye shall find the truth...The bible was translated literally, which was definitely a mistake!, aside from gramatical failures!! So relax ppl!! We really know half of the truth, if even that much!! I wouldn't bet my expectations on a poorly translated man written book...

nickjs>I'm impress with your point of view (religion wise of course).
But IMO Christianity is very judgemental 😖
I mean some priest (sp). The priest from were I live didnt baptise (sp) me because my parents didnt have a wedding in church,it was just the legal stuff 🙄

Originally posted by Verity
See?...This is what I mean...Instead of being a healthy conversation about the movies...it becomes a battle on who knows more about the meanings in the psalms of the bible!!

This is still a healthy conversation about the movie.

This thread has not went to the crapper yet.😂

In my 1st post I said what I felt about how the movie connected with real life & the bible.

Then my 2nd post was in responce to nicks post. 🙂

Trust me there are no flame wars being started in here. 😉

Its still all good....

Originally posted by -=Urot=-
This is still a healthy conversation about the movie.

This thread has not went to the crapper yet.😂

In my 1st post I said what I felt about how the movie connected with real life & the bible.

Then my 2nd post was in responce to nicks post. 🙂

Trust me there are no flame wars being started in here. 😉

Its still all good....

Otay!!! 🙄

i agree. in fact, this is a pretty good debate. we both seem to be well-versed in our particular POV's. and believe me, i'd much rather have this conversation with someone who knew how to back up their opinions than with someone who just called me an idiot and then posted twenty smileys.

actually, i don't think satan produces evil -- satan's job description is basically ruler of hell. what you do on earth is your choice. if you choose to go to hell, then it's satan's job to punish you. but until you get there, all he can do is tempt. so we're on the same page then when we say satan is NOT responsible for evil on earth.

but man is, and i think that's where we disagree. again, it's all about choice. evil exists not because god created it, but because god created us and we chose it. god gave us free will. therefore, if we chose to act in an evil manner, we have created evil. you can't say that god created evil based on the fact that "god created everything" -- by that same logic, i could say that god invented burritos, and computers, and cars, and the internet. god created us. we took it from there.

i only read a little of that site, urot, because i'll address that in another post. don't want to run on too long. but like verity said, the bible is not meant to be taken literally -- as in, the noah story and the creation story never happened. so god did NOT wipe out all of humanity save noah's family, as that site says he did. the story of noah and the flood parallels a very similar story the pagans had for hundreds of years before the bible was ever written. the story was just reinterpreted and placed in the bible to stress a biblical truth (as many of the stories are) -- a moral, if you will. in this case, the moral is that god provides as he promises.

as for adam and eve . . . like i said, it never happened. the biblical truth it is meant to convey is that god created the world, and he created man in his image, and man was then free to sin if he wanted to. the story isn't meant to be taken for more than that. most catholics that aren't ignorant or bible-thumpers will tell you that. in fact, i learned that in school -- the bible isn't meant to be taken literally. just look at it more closely: there are two creation accounts in the bible, and they disagree with each other in certain areas. furthermore, where were the dinosaurs and cavemen if adam and eve were the first living people? the answer, of course, is that the hebrews didn't know dinosaurs and cavemen existed when they wrote it. they just wanted to get their point across.

much of the old testament is just that, in fact -- stories meant simply to express a moral. granted, much of it is based in truth (moses, and the stories about hebrews enslaved in egypt, etc) -- but for the really outrageous stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

the reason the new testament is so much more different is because
a) it's trying to do something different
b) it was written much later by different people

much of the message of the NT is stressing that god isn't just for hebrews -- he wants to spread his word to all people of all walks of life. that's what jesus was supposed to do, spread that message. in fact, "catholic" means "universal."

i'll grant you present good points, but i refuse to concede that god is not all about love. remember that corny saying, "god is love"? it sounds mushy, but it's true.

and there is an alternative to heaven and hell: purgatory.

kes: what do you mean when you say you're impressed by my religious point of view?
yes, i think christianity can be pretty judgemental. but i can't speak for all of them. i'm a catholic.

Originally posted by nickjs21
i only read a little of that site, urot, because i'll address that in another post. don't want to run on too long. but like verity said, the bible is not meant to be taken literally -- as in, the noah story and the creation story never happened. so god did NOT wipe out all of humanity save noah's family, as that site says he did. the story of noah and the flood parallels a very similar story the pagans had for hundreds of years before the bible was ever written. the story was just reinterpreted and placed in the bible to stress a biblical truth (as many of the stories are) -- a moral, if you will. in this case, the moral is that god provides as he promises.

much of the old testament is just that, in fact -- stories meant simply to express a moral. granted, much of it is based in truth (moses, and the stories about hebrews enslaved in egypt, etc) -- but for the really outrageous stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

and there is an alternative to heaven and hell: purgatory.

Had to do some slicing and dicing to your quote. 😄

I agree that the Bible is filled with story trying to teach a moral lesson.

My point in posting the site was to show that according to the bible God was a killer and ordered his pepole to do wicked things in his name.

It doesnt matter if the stories are true or not, that is inmaterial. I was just addressing the doctine put forth by the bible and its followers.

I agree with you on the point that the NT is trying to show God in a new light. A loving light.

IMO I think god is not that bad. The problem starts when man tries to speak for him.

As I said before God has same trates as man does. For we both know about good and evil.

----------------

I have to run too. I will continue my thoughts later on tonite on this topic. 🙂

Originally posted by nickjs21

kes: what do you mean when you say you're impressed by my religious point of view?
yes, i think christianity can be pretty judgemental. but i can't speak for all of them. i'm a catholic.

I mean you really believe it and defended it very well.
It wasn't an insult.

oh, no, i didn't take it as an insult. i just wasn't following what you meant. but i appreciate it.

as for really believing it and defending it well . . . well, if you're going to believe anything, be it catholicism or judaism or atheism, you better really believe it and be able to defend it well . . . otherwise you just look like a fool. faith is a good thing. ignorance isn't.
🙂

Originally posted by -=Urot=-

IMO I think god is not that bad. The problem starts when man tries to speak for him.

for as much trouble as the movie dogma got into with the catholic church (i personally thought it was hilarious), chris rock had a very good scene when he talked abou jesus getting pissed off by all the shit that gets carried out in his name -- war, bigotry, hate crimes, televangelism. 🙂

well, i guess we'll have to get into that "god as killer" theory later.

Originally posted by nickjs21
for as much trouble as the movie dogma got into with the catholic church (i personally thought it was hilarious), chris rock had a very good scene when he talked abou jesus getting pissed off by all the shit that gets carried out in his name -- war, bigotry, hate crimes, televangelism. 🙂

well, i guess we'll have to get into that "god as killer" theory later.

Dogma was one of my fav movies. 🙂

And as for god being a killer. I think that will be a nice discussion. 😉

all right guys. this is what it all comes down to. If your in any religion or not at all... atheist or catholic or agnostic or non-denominatoinal... I think the line from American History X sums it up the best.. you just have to ask yourself this one question.. "Has anything you've done.. made your life better?" thats all you gotta ask yourlself. If you do that.. you'll be just fine.

oh and guys... The Bible isn't a history book or a bio of jesus.. its simply just a Faith Summary for those who want to believe.. thats all.

which is exactly, as per my point, why it isn't to be taken literally.

*cracks knuckles* ok, in summary, i've taken the "best" excerpts of god's murderous ways from the provided site in an attempt to respond to them. anything in bracket's is the author's additional comments.

"Abraham is certainly willing to do what ever the Lord demands of him, even when God orders him to kill his son. But all turns out Ok when an angel yells really loud to Abraham that it was just a test to see how much he loved God."
-- i hardly see this as a good support. this passage says it itself: god was testing abraham's commitment to his religion. he asked abraham to sacrifice his son to him, and abraham said he would. without telling his son what he has in plan, the two set out to the mountains to offer a sacrifice. his son asks abraham, "where is the lamb?" abraham's famous answer was, "god will provide." then god eventually intervenes in the sacrifice. flash forward hundreds of years later, to jesus' first public appearance. when he walks up to the crowded river, what does john the baptist proclaim at the sight of him? "behold, the lamb of god." so god loved the world enough to give up his own son, but would never ask us to do the same. he just wants to know that we are just as devoted.

"Pharaoh orders all midwifes to strangle new born Jewish children. Of course they refused. Pharaoh then orders them to throw the babies into the river. Ex 1:18,22"
-- ok, but what does that have to do with god being a killer? the enemy of the hebrew people ordered jewish babies to be killed. and this is god's fault?

"Moses kills an Egyptian deliberately for beating an Israelite."
-- this was long before moses began his spiritual career. the bible actually shows that moses was the last person anyone would expect to be sent by god to lead the israelites to freedom. he was, first, raised as an egyptian. he was a sinner, and (as shown here) a murderer. he even had a speech impediment (a stutter). and god chose him because he had an inner strength. after he repented, paid for his sins, and turned his life around, he went back to egypt and the rest is history.

"he could have caused pharaoh to let them go free"
-- the author claims that god didn't need to send harmful plagues on the egyptians when he could have simply changed the pharoah's mind. not true. like i said, god values our free will.

"The Israelites are forced to wander for 40 years in the desert so that the older people would die. Num 14 [The Christian God despises old people.]"
-- now that's just ridiculous. what about elizabeth, mary's cousin, who gave birth to john the baptist long after menopause, simply because she had such a strong faith in god and wanted a child? the same goes for abraham, who was ancient when he had his son. in fact, many of the people in the OT are said to live very long lives after they fulfill god's wishes (i think abraham died well over 150 years old). and as for the 40 years thing. they were sentenced to wander for 40 years because they stopped believing in god. here god is, freeing them from captivity to lead them to a home of their own. but they get sick of walking, so they build a golden calf and start to worship it in hopes that a pagan god will take away their troubles. and here god is, saying, "i'm doing this for you, and you're gonna ***** because you're tired of walking? that's not tired. this is tired." and hence, they wander for 40 years.

"After striving to reach the Promised Land for forty years, Moses and Aaron are denied entry because Moses had struck a rock in anger to obtain water."
-- actually, he wasn't let in because he cursed god right before they got there. he, too, was tired of the walking and failed god's test (again, it's all about commitment). so he was punished for cursing god. he was allowed to see israel, but not enter it.

"All the inhabitants of the country of the hills, and the south of the vale, and the springs and their kings, he left none remaining but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."
-- for this passage, and the following passages that deal with war and slaughter, remember what i said about the bible and taking it literally. it was written by jews. the jews lived in a time when war was life. surely, no army is ever so victorious as to completely demolish EVERY opposing life without suffering a casualty. that part was more for the israelite writers to inspire respect for their ancestors in a time when war is what brought respect. but the wars did happen. god promised them their land, but between his promise and them actually getting there, other pagan cities moved in and refused to leave. the jews saw war as the only negotiation. but as for god being depicted as their general on the front line leading them into war, that's a stretch.

"All the citizens of Jericho, except for a whore and her family. 'And they utterly destroyed all in the city, man and woman, young and old, and ox... with the edge of the sword.'"
-- again, see above. as for the whore being the only person spared, that's because she changed sides and acted as a spy for the israelites.

"All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea while pursuing the Israelites. '... and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.'"
-- again, don't take the bible literally. this was meant to show (like the war passages) that god's people are protected by god and, as the saying goes, "if god is for us, who could stand against us?"

"All the first born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night."
-- yep. moses warned the pharoah for weeks that this would happen if he didn't let the jews go. god doesn't account for wax in anyone's ears.

"Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the surrounding plain, by 'brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.' Gen 19:24. Lot and his family fled."
-- god destroyed the cities of sodom and gomorrah because they were hell on earth. in all the land, he couldn't find ONE innocent soul that was willing to repent. these places were like vegas multiplied by five thousand. the only innocent man he found was lot. so lot's family was warned and allowed to flee. but, for the umpteenth time, remember to take the story with a grain of salt. it's doubtful that god just destroyed a city like that.

"The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. 'And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth; and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.' Gen 7:23"
-- we've already talked about this one not being true.

so, i hope i could clear most of that up.

I'm trying to find the word Matrix on the past two pages.

If you most esteemed gentlemen need to discuss Christinanity as your personal faith, crutch, belief, knowledge etc. maybe another forum???

haha

wait . . . this is a matrix forum?!

holy crap . . .

Nickjs21> Careful who you say “holy crap” to. Otherwise someone will claim that someone in this forum is a deity… (nods gravely)

🙂

ah, those were the days . . .

wow.