Answer these u LOTR addicts

Started by undomiel5 pages

oh

Gandalf is about 1,900 years old. Him, Saruman, Rhadagast, and the two unnamed Blue Wizards arived in Middle-Earth around 1,100 years after the start of the Third Age, and the LotR takes place around 3,018 years after the start of the Third Age. I happen to know that the Istari (Wizards) are all Maiar, lesser beings than the Valar but still great. Sauron and the Balrogs are also Maiar, only they were drawn into evil by the power and splendor of Morgoth. The Valar, The Lords of the West, held a council together about the growing threat of evil from Dol Guldur. They agreed to send 5 Maiar in the form of Men, and they were forbade to take dominion over the lives of others, and were ordered to unite together those that would resist the Evil. These Maiar were Olorin (Gandalf), Curumo (Saruman), Aiwendil (Rhadagast), Alatar and Pallando (The Blue Wizards). All Valar and Maiar were created by Eru Iluvatar before the creation of the World. Therefore, Gandalf's actual age would be 50,000 at the least. For though some Valar were created before other Valar and some Maiar were created before other Maiar, all were, as I said, created before the beginning of the World, and the time from when the first Valar were created and when they all descended upon the World was not long (maybe some thousands at most). But after the beginning of the World, tens of thousands of years past before Elves first awoke in Middle-Earth, and then it was at least another 10,000 years before the waking of Men and the first rising of the Sun. On that day (I believe) was the First Day of the First Age, and from that time to the time of LotR, another 10,000 years passed at absolute least.

All in all, Gandalf is around 1900 years old (after Olorin took that form, thus becoming Gandalf), though if you consider Gandalf'a age to be Olorin's age, he could be anywhere from 50,000 years old to 100,000 years old, possibly even older.

NOTE: Although both Olorin and Sauron are Maiar, Sauron is more powerful. For some Valar are weaker to other Valar, and some Maiar are weaker than other Maiar. The strengths of the Maiar can very greatly, as a Maia can be as weak as a Ring-Wraith or as strong as a Vala.

Anyone get a chance check out this great site http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ I looked up gothmog and there was 2 definitions one for lord of the balrogs and one for lieutenant of morgul who took over the forces of minus morgul after the loss of his lord. It doesnt say wether he is a wraith, but i believe in the actual book that it specifies a wraith took over after the loss of the witch king.

Yes, a Wraith did take over after the loss of the Witch-King, but the second in command of the Wraiths was Khamul the Easterling. Thus, it is likely that Khamul, not this other wraith you speak of, took over command of Minis Morgul.

As for this 'Gothmog,' I do not believe that any Wraith had such a name.

did you look up the web site i linked? it says khamul is second in comand but that gothmog took over on the pelenor fields. hum? kind of seems odd. it must be one of those many things that tolkien had changed and changed again till who knows what his actual intent was.

Well, for one thing, I am not sure whether you (and that site) are right or wrong. I have insufficient evidence to prove either, though I say this:

It has come to my knowledge that a card-game exists of the LotR, and that there are cards for each of the Ring-Wraiths. However, the names given to the Nazgul on those cards are made up, save ONLY for the Witch-King and Khamul. It is my belief that Tolkien never got around to making names to any of the other Wraiths, and that the names of the Nazgul on the cards are made to be imitations of actual names (and they did a terrible job of it). Many people take things they see on websites to be fact without considering the credibility of the source. There never was any Nazgul named Gothmog. Gothmog is the name of the Lord of Balrogs, and his name only. The names made for the other 7 Nazgul are unbelievably corny, and I would think it obvious to anyone that they are stupid faxsimilies, and not true names.

As for one of those things Tolkien changed over and over again, I do not believe it is. The confusion is due to other people making up false information to try and look smart, while there aren't any facts supporting their claims.

dude you are acting like i am calling you out or something. i was just saying that this web site, which i have found to be very acurate, has a bit of confusion with it on the subject of a second gothmog and khamul. perhaps the second gothmog was just a man who was a liuetent of minus morgul who took over after the fall of the witch king on the pelanor fields, i find that hard to believe, but it just doesnt specify. Now the confusion involved with LOTR is not made up by people trying to look smart. If you have ever read any of the history of middle earth books you would know that tolkien wrote and rewrote everything many times and even once they were published he was still hashing over it all. It has actually caused a lot of debate in this forum, because you can find things written by tolkien that werent published till after his death that alter, conterdict, or go into more detail on the original work. so do we take only his published works as true or all of his writtings. Now you raise a good point not everything on websites are to be trusted, but everything i have ever looked at on this site has been correct so I beleive this to be a very credible website. before dismissing things to people making stuff up, check it out and determine for yourself. Now just flat out saying there never was a wraith named gothmog, did you try and look up any info on it or are you winging it, or maybe you are relying on those trading cards you got.

I have no trading cards of my own, I just found that there were trading cards while trying to research the names and histories of the Nazgul. I have read 5 books about the History of Middle-Earth, and I more than know about how things kept changing. I have just not seen any evidence in those works that any Wraith was ever named Gothmog, and I therefore am not sure whether or not it is true. I have looked all over the net for things about the Nazgul, but the only sites I found were sites that had stuff about that card game. Also, I think that the name Gothmog has a meaning in the Black speech or some other tongue that specifies that it is a Lord of something, and it wasn't the Lord of anything before the Witch-King died. I have yet to look at the site you posted but I will momentarily and I will get back to you on what I think.

Okay, I've checked it out, and I have this to add:

The site specified that the names are, in fact, not made by Tolkien, but made up as imitation names of the various languages they had come from. The names were made up by Iron Crown Enterprises for the card game, and it has mistakenly been spread across the net as fact. As that very website stated, however, they were not made by Tolkien and are not facts.

I assume you mean the names for the Nazgul are on the encyclopedia of arda web site and that they state the names are made up. I havent seen the cards so i apologize i dont know what any of those names are. Did you look up the name gothmog? what was your impression of the site? I think it is a great refrence, but a person should always have more than one source to back them up so i will see if i can find where i read that about 2 gothmogs. kind of puzzling thing here. was the second gothmog man or nazgul or i guess in your case did he exist.

Well, I don't know what the source of there information is. It didn't say its name in the names made up list, though it only said that Khamul was made by Tolkien... I don't quite understand that... I'm looking into it, but I haven't found anything yet. Other than that, however, that sitee does seem like a reliable source of information with its sources all foundin the books. But the Gothmog thing wasn't in any of the books I've read...

i had problems finding anything on the gothmog issue except if you have "The Complete Guide to Middle Earth" by i think robert margroff or something like that he makes references to it, which leads me to beleive that it is somewhere in one of the books. i am betting it is in "the peoples of middle earth", but havent checked that out yet.

Elrond has been living on Middle Earth over 6500 years. So may be he is over 7000 years old. So Gandalf is more than 7000 years old.

Elrond has been living on Middle Earth over 6500 years. So may be he is over 7000 years old.OOps i'm sorry i don't know why my reply is shown 2 times. 😮

I have tried to find something about the other rings but i could not.

The three elven rings were made by Celebrimbor of Hollin and are the only rings of power never to be sullied by Sauron's hand. They are called Narya, Nenya and Vilya. Narya is the ring of fire and was originally wielded by Cirdan the Shipwright, but he gave it to Gandalf when he came to Middle-Earth. This is why Gandalf makes the claim to the Balrog 'I am a servant of the Secret Fire, weilder of the Flame of Anor.'
Nenya is the ring of Adamant had has always been kept by Galadriel. Vilya is the ring of Air. It was originally kept by Gil-galad, the High King of the Noldor, but at some point before the War of the Last Alliance he gave it to Elrond who has it during the War of the Rings.

gandalf is older than the middle earth as he was one of the miaia 😮‍💨

I think that the rings of men are on the wraiths and thats what gives them there powers but....souron has control over those ring so he orders them what to do.

gothmog is a balrog and i think gandalf is very old because he was a maiar, Olorion was his name and the maiar are very old. gandalf as a wizard is not old as olorion as a maiar, but i think of it as the same thing kind of

We seem to be going around in circles here, and Fini already bknew about the Elven Rings.