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Sorry Sas, I had to post it http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif.
Drew Karpyshyn was asked by NewGuy01 the power difference between Revan as of Knights of the Old Republic and Revan as of The Old Republic to help us grasp a better understanding on Darth Malak's power. Here is his response:

" On some days, the younger, pre-rebirth Revan might be stronger, on other days the wiser, more mature older Revan might have the upper hand. It depends on all sorts of circumstances. The example I give is with pro athletes. Is Tiger Woods from 2000 better than Tiger from 2006? One was younger and hit the ball farther, the other was wiser and had more control of his game. If they played a match, who knows who would win? If they played 10 matches, I doubt one version would win them all. So, really, who is stronger? I feel the same way about Revan."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)
- - - - -
Darth Malak's Combat Overview Thread :
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-malaks-combat-overview/97192/

I knew you'd post this. Though, you really misunderstood the question I asked, as did Karpyshyn.

To be honest, I could really care less what was your original question to Drew Karpyshyn.
All that matters was his answer, which was more beneficial then any email from him ever.

I guess I'm not aware of the story behind this, but what does Drew's answer prove?

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.
http://askrecoveryrob.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Denial.jpg

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
I guess I'm not aware of the story behind this, but what does Drew's answer prove?

I questioned Drew on the effects the regaining of his mask had on Revan as a character and forceful, and how dramatic they were. I was curious to hear whether or not his regained knowledge of the Dark Side had heightened his potency with the Force overall, as the novel seemed to imply that.

He apparently took that as me asking who was stronger between KotOR Revan and SWTOR Revan, which wasn't exactly what I was asking.

Ant is arguing that the answer provided proves KotOR Revan may have been physically superior to SWTOR Revan, whilst the latter wiser and more controlled.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sorry Sas, I had to post it http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif.
Drew Karpyshyn was asked by NewGuy01 the power difference between Revan as of Knights of the Old Republic and Revan as of The Old Republic to help us grasp a better understanding on Darth Malak's power. Here is his response:

" On some days, the younger, pre-rebirth Revan might be stronger, on other days the wiser, more mature older Revan might have the upper hand. It depends on all sorts of circumstances. The example I give is with pro athletes. Is Tiger Woods from 2000 better than Tiger from 2006? One was younger and hit the ball farther, the other was wiser and had more control of his game. If they played a match, who knows who would win? If they played 10 matches, I doubt one version would win them all. So, really, who is stronger? I feel the same way about Revan."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)
- - - - -
Darth Malak's Combat Overview Thread :
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-malaks-combat-overview/97192/

Such a bullshit political answer from Drew.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I questioned Drew on the effects the regaining of his mask had on Revan as a character and forceful, and how dramatic they were. I was curious to hear whether or not his regained knowledge of the Dark Side had heightened his potency with the Force overall, as the novel seemed to imply that.

He apparently took that as me asking who was stronger between KotOR Revan and SWTOR Revan, which wasn't exactly what I was asking.

Ant is arguing that the answer provided proves KotOR Revan may have been physically superior to SWTOR Revan, whilst the latter wiser and more controlled.


Ahh, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Really, Revan was ever learning according to Kreia, ever seeking more knowledge more secrets the force had to reveal, he was a master duelist, malak was powerful but his tactics by attacking his master in battle ship to ship reveals his lack of confidence and therefore in my mind his personal belief that revan would smite him.

Originally posted by Salthasha
Really, Revan was ever learning according to Kreia, ever seeking more knowledge more secrets the force had to reveal, he was a master duelist, malak was powerful but his tactics by attacking his master in battle ship to ship reveals his lack of confidence and therefore in my mind his personal belief that revan would smite him.

I'd say it was more of Malak being a cunning tactician. He (almost) killed two birds with one stone. Even if Malak is considered the brawns of the duo, he still had to at some point start plotting Revan's downfall.

Originally posted by red8
I'd say it was more of Malak being a cunning tactician. He (almost) killed two birds with one stone. Even if Malak is considered the brawns of the duo, he still had to at some point start plotting Revan's downfall.
Darth Malak was preparing himself for a second confrontation (duel) with Revan. Darth Malak didn't plot in advance the Jedi Strike Team at all, he simply took advantage of the situtation when it appeared.
In terms of a tactian, Darth Malak was pretty awful. During the time he was the Dark Lord, his only notable accomplishment besides losing in the Sith "order's greatest defeat," was the destruction of the Jedi Enclave.

"His stratagems were painfully obvious, intending to crush all resistance everywhere. There was little thought beyond the complete destruction of anything that opposed him." --GOTO

Originally posted by Salthasha
malak was powerful but his tactics by attacking his master in battle ship to ship reveals his lack of confidence and therefore in my mind his personal belief that revan would smite him.
You are wrong, actually. It is a shame to see people don't try out all possible dialogue options in Knights of the Old Republic.

"You betrayed me from afar. You were afraid to face me, Malak."
"No! I was prepared to face you, Revan. But fate presented me with a better option. I saw my opportunity and seized it."
--Revan and Darth Malak on the Star Forge (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

---- ---- ----
Do not forget that shortly before this, Darth Malak dueled Darth Revan in his first attempt to defeat him.
He was able to press the confrontation until both opponents were "desperate", not Darth Revan ultimately prevailed, slicing off Darth Malak's jaw.

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle."
―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

That being said, I'm sure canonically Revan goes on about how great redemption is instead, and since that prolongs the conversation, a lot of people pick it more. I believe the betray from afar option shortens the dialogue.

I think what makes most people assume Malak is weak comes from the fact that Revan and co fights through armies of battle droids and Dark Jedi, fights Bastila three times(canonically), fights through a droid factory, and then fights Malak. Sure, "in a book that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages," but Revan still had to fight through the entire Star Forge, a nexus, through amped Jedi and super droids, just to fight an amped Malak anywhere from two-six times. No ones going to think highly of someone after that.

In total there were 8 captive Jedi on the Star Forge, not 6. Educate yourself.

Assuming full Lightside completion, you fight him 3 times.
Assuming full Darkside completion, you drain 5 of the Jedi for yourself.

That being said, it is unlikely Revan defeated Darth Malak fully every-time. He was most likely only half-injured.
A mere Jedi's left-over Force reserve is not going to be able to fully replenish Darth Malak on the brink of death.
---- ---- ----
"You must go now, Revan. The Star Forge feeds the power of your old apprentice. If you do not stop him soon he will become too powerful for even you to stop."
--Elder Council (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

Once.

I no longer consider the two times Darth Malak replenished his health from the Jedi and then Revan forcing him to replenish another Jedi as a decisive defeat. I honestly doubt the leftovers of one of the Jedi's force reserve even equivalent to a half of Darth Malak's. His power on the Star Forge came from the dark energies of the space-station itself, not the Jedi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In total there were 8 captive Jedi on the Star Forge, not 6. Educate yourself.

I doubt that Revan would be able to fight Malak 9 times after traveling through the Star Forge, which is why I gave an estimate.

These are just your theoretical numbers of times Revan fights Malak. I've never seen a =ny definite number given. As I've said before, I also don't believe the fight goes exactly as it's shown in game, so you already know how I feel about these numbers anyway.

Agreed, but I wasn't disputing that. The point is Malak is the last in a series of much more impressive feats of endurance. No one's going to think as highly as you do when he's gone through armies prior.

Malak was still beaten multiple times after traveling through the Star Forge with only two other people. The point is, Malak looks less impressive given that combined with the fact that he is amped, not that Malak isn't impressive.

You weren't really giving an estimate though. You said "just to fight an amped Malak anywhere from two-six times." That is incorrect.

I honestly don't give a shit how much you care about those numbers, though you should accept them, for they follow the databanks.

"The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs."
―Star Wars Databanks: Darth Malak

Due to the fact he drained a plural amount of Jedi canonically, the minimum amount of times Darth Malak had to fight Revan is 3 (one time without drain, two with drain). However, to achieve a full lightside character, (which is recognized by Drew Karpyshyn and other sources as the canonical version of Knights of the Old Republic Revan) you free the other Jedi captives so they don't get drained by Darth Malak.

Excuse yourself, but many people do. NewGuy01 and Intrepid37 are among examples.


He was defeated once really. Leftovers of a captive average Jedi Knight's Force reserve is not going to be able to fully replenish even half of his health. They really didn't have much effect on the battle (game-mechanics aside).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sorry Sas, I had to post it http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif.
Drew Karpyshyn was asked by NewGuy01 the power difference between Revan as of Knights of the Old Republic and Revan as of The Old Republic to help us grasp a better understanding on Darth Malak's power. Here is his response:

" On some days, the younger, pre-rebirth Revan might be stronger, on other days the wiser, more mature older Revan might have the upper hand. It depends on all sorts of circumstances. The example I give is with pro athletes. Is Tiger Woods from 2000 better than Tiger from 2006? One was younger and hit the ball farther, the other was wiser and had more control of his game. If they played a match, who knows who would win? If they played 10 matches, I doubt one version would win them all. So, really, who is stronger? I feel the same way about Revan."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)
- - - - -
Darth Malak's Combat Overview Thread :
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-malaks-combat-overview/97192/ What a deliciously non-committal answer.

Why wouldn't Malak be able to fully heal himself from the captive Jedi? He's not replenishing his Force reserves, he's healing himself. Their "life-force" would be enough to heal his wounds and other issues. As for his actual reserves, he's able to draw off of the SF for that, like Bastila. Though I imagine the Jedi didn't hurt his force reserves either.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why wouldn't Malak be able to fully heal himself from the captive Jedi? He's not replenishing his Force reserves, he's healing himself. Their "life-force" would be enough to heal his wounds and other issues. As for his actual reserves, he's able to draw off of the SF for that, like Bastila. Though I imagine the Jedi didn't hurt his force reserves either.
"The Star Forge corrupts what remains of their power and transfers the dark taint to me."
--Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic)

Remnants of an average Jedi's Force powers is not going to affect much of his health, to be honest. In fact, the Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide states that "Malak uses them to add to his already formidable dark side power," not to necessarily heal himself. The official databanks state similar, saying he used it to replenish "his life force." The Jedi can actually hurt Darth Malak as well, and perhaps might even have. If Revan frees the Jedi captives using a powerful lightside power (which he canonically does), Darth Malak can then try to drain the pod, resulting in him losing some of his Force powers. Because logically, he is draining an area tainted and coated with lightside energies. Though I doubt he is dumb enough to do it again and again, of course. The Star Forge should have replenished some of his lost energies, however (based on the fight with Bastila Shan).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"The Star Forge corrupts what remains of their power and transfers the dark taint to me."
--Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic)

Remnants of an average Jedi's Force powers is not going to affect much of his health, to be honest.

Why not? You got a reason to think that Malak sucking them dry wouldn't heal all his "health"? Because this sounds completely speculative to me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In fact, the Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide states that "Malak uses them to add to his already formidable dark side power," not to necessarily heal himself. The official databanks state similar, saying he used it to replenish "his life force."

Life force is health, obviously. Thanks for proving that he was also boosted by them though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Jedi can actually hurt Darth Malak as well, and perhaps might even have. If Revan frees the Jedi captives using a powerful lightside power (which he canonically does), Darth Malak can then try to drain the pod, resulting in him losing some of his Force powers. Because logically, he is draining an area tainted and coated with lightside energies. Though I doubt he is dumb enough to do it again and again, of course. The Star Forge should have replenished some of his lost energies, however (based on the fight with Bastila Shan).

I've never known this to happen???

Nor have I.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

You weren't really giving an estimate though. You said "just to fight an amped Malak anywhere from two-six times." That is incorrect.

That's because unlike you, I'm not going to state my theory as fact. I'll cover all ground, within reason, but I'm not going to say, "This happened."

The databanks do not say that Malak didn't constantly drain off the Jedi during their duel and amping him. There's no way that anyone with half a brain, nor with the accolade of "genius" would watch as someone roams around and drains from Jedi. And correct me, but doesn't Revan "canonically" kill Bendak Starkiller, since we're bringing game mechanics of Dark and Light into this?

Cool, haven't seen them, though I'd love to meet the many people who put Malak as an insurmountable challenge for most after losing multiple times to a no doubt exhausted Jedi. Also, Intrepid is comical support.

I was unaware that lightsabers needed to hit someone more than a few times to kill them. Obviously they aren't making him invincible, but unless it's actually healing him, he would have died well before even your own estimate.

Kotor Revan really wasn't much of a genius. Hell, neither was book Revan or TOR Revan imo. Darth Revan's personality was destroyed in his mind-wipe, he never regained that part of himself in my estimation.

For one thing, Kotor Revan ran right into ambushes an absurd number of times.

I was hoping that he regained his common sense in the weeks following his and Malak's previous encounter.

You serious? I was unaware I needed to teach someone how to count, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the fact that it's with you.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/yawn11.jpg


Cutscenes are considered canonical on this forum, as well as nearly every other. In cutscenes he visibly drains them all together. And no, killing Bendak Starkiller is not the canonical lightside path.

Or perhaps he is more skilled then you expected?

----- ----- -----

Nah, it could have healed him, but never to the levels like you are suggesting. Rather the Star Forge replenished his health really, not the Jedi.

"...the power of the Star Forge re-energizes me!"
--Bastila Shan


"Life force: the vital force or impulse of life; one's source of vitality, spirit, energy, and strength."
--The Dictionary

The Sith Emperor also drained the life force of Nathema, giving him immortality. Healing your wounds is not really what it is used for, to be honest. It rather deals with other aspects.


"Or, you can use any light side power on the bodies and malfunction the terminals themselves, thus stopping Malak from utilizing his drain life; he immediately staggers back and loses half of his Force points. Again, minor light side Force powers are too weak to affect the terminals. When Malak is finally cut down, he falls to his knees. You must destroy this evil galactic influence. Once this is complete, you can rest, filled with joy at the knowledge that Darth Malak no longer holds sway over the fate of the galaxy. Now the Republic and Sith will learn of a new master. Now you are the master!"
--Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

DarthAnt66 is correct here, for the most part.

The use of Drain Life revitalizes the user, rejuvenating their stamina and vigor. The act of using drained Force energy to heal is a separate ability all together, known as Dark Healing. Speaking of which, Malak's Drain actually siphons both the life force and the force energies from the captive Jedi, effectively refilling both his stamina and force reserves, strengthening him.

He's also correct in his secondary statement, that by shielding the captive Jedi in what most accurately resembles a Wall of Light, Malak could actually exhaust himself in attempt to siphon energy from them. Revan can also destroy the pods, which limits Malak's resources. BTW, this leads me to believe that perhaps the defense against Force Drain is effectively to encase oneself in a Wall of Light...

And finally, he's also correct in saying that Darth Malak was not as helpless as he is made out to be. As he's already pointed out, the duel between Darth Revan and Darth Malak was noted as "desperate", which brings up the implication that even without additional benefits Malak was comparable to (Darth) Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

You serious? I was unaware I needed to teach someone how to count, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the fact that it's with you.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/yawn11.jpg

You don't know how many Malak drained, using your reasoning that he actually ran to drain them all, before Revan started freeing them anymore than I do. Stating the number of them means nothing. It's never stated anywhere how many. Seriously, calm down.

The only one of those cutscenes that is guaranteed is the first when he explains it. Also the guides are canonical everywhere else except for when they disagree with your arguments? While all major decisions are obviously Light Sided, the idea that someone must always act a certain way in every situation is unrealistic.

Then he wouldn't be hurt in the first place. If Malak needs to drain them, then he obviously was.

Upon re-inspection, it's obvious that Drew was referring to the contrast between pre-KOTOR and post-KOTOR Revan ala SOR.

Ah, this thread takes me back to when I actually gave a ****.

Why would anyone ask that moron about Star Wars lore?

Jesus Christ.

He wrote a horrible book about what happens in between KOTOR II and TOR, thats about it.

He was the lead writer for KotOR and wrote the Knight and Revan portions of TOR.