Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the Cage
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All Yoda's Fault.....
a SW buddy of mine said he thinks that everything that led up to the rise of the sith is yoda's fault. any thoughts?
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the Cage
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what? qui gon, had he lived, would have been the perfect master for annie. in my opinion, annie should have never been trained. he was, so thats that. but, i think the job should have fell upon yoda or mace windu to train him.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
why qui-gon? if you were him and tested a little kid's midi-blah-blah count and he had even more than yoda, would you just say, "meh" and leave him there?
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the Cage
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exactly. qui gon saw annies potential. even though i agree that annie shouldnt have been trained, qui gon would have been an ideal master to train him.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
The one thing that doesn't make sense though, is that Obi-Wan beat Anakin, and although Yoda didn't beat Sidious, he put up a good fight. Now logically, wouldn't Yoda want to get Obi-Wan to go at another time and face Sidious so they could kill him? The two of them combined could take him, especially if they could come in contact with others to help them. Palps is good, but he's not gonna be able to defend himself against like 10 Jedi, a bunch of people with blasters, and the two most powerful Jedi in the order! So yes, it is Yoda's fault, for not having thought of that plan, and for teaching Jedi for hundreds of years things like "strong enough to fight the Emperor, you are not"..."Too sure of themselves they are, even the older, more experienced ones"...learn your own lesson Kermit.
I'd never blame Qui Gon. It's Yoda and the rest of the Jedi's fault. Qui Gon understood that the Jedi were wrong. He was like a Rogue Jedi. Going against the will of the Council and the code. Yoda screwed it all up. He "failed" in more ways than one...
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusettes, United States
Qui-gon was the only Jedi left that was in-tune with the force and acting according to it's will. The rest of the Jedi were straying away from the ideals of the Jedi and becoming more political and dogmatic than anything. Yoda and Mace Windu are very much to blame, just as much as the rest of the council. They did not see the dark side rising and were duped by Palpatine because they were being politicians, not being Jedi. That is why Qui-gon was not on the council and often ignored them, because he was following the force and not them.
That is why Yoda becomes Qui-gon's apprentice at the end of the film; Qui-gon instructs Yoda and helps him to go back to the correct ways.
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the Cage
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yoda had a responsibility to make sure annie was properly trained, and by appointing him to obi wan, he failed in this responsibility.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusettes, United States
Indeed. Had Qui-Gon trained Anikan, he would have been there for the boy. As much as Obi-Wan was and was close to him, everything in his training was about dogma and rules. Neither he nor Yoda nor Mace paid any attention to Anikan's feelings. That's not to say that his feelings should take place over the responsibility of being a Jedi, but the fact remains he is human and humans have feelings. Qui-Gon would have been someone to go to for Anikan, and would have taught him how to control himself better. His feelings would have been tended to while still taking second place to the way of the Jedi.
This is the reason that when we see Luke being trained, Yoda and Obi-Wan pay more attention to his feelings (while not obsessing over them). They also warn him left and right about the dark side, whereas it seems in the time of ROTS nobody talks about it and the young padawans are left in a position where any one of them would easily succumb to temptation as they have not been warned. The reason Yoda and Obi-Wan behave differently is because Qui-Gon has been training them in these ways for 20 years, and this is why Luke is able to resist Palpatine.
Anakins training was not Yodas responsibility, it was his masters. Anakin turning to the dark side was not the fault of any jedi, it was achieved over years of deciet. Yoda was the ONLY jedi who sensed what Anakin was truly capable of.
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if you read the book you understand what anakin is feeling and realize that he is balancing the jedi and the will to save padme. if mace were just paying more attention and wasnt so sure of the idea that anakin would never try to strike him down he couldve avoided anakin's attack and kill palpatine, tipping the scale in anakin's head to the jedi and the rigth path and everything wouldve been fine.
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusettes, United States
Re: Re: All Yoda's Fault.....
There are two ways to look at this. Either Palpatine knew about Anakin (because he or Plagieus created the boy) and he would have then gotten the boy and trained him from youth into a MUCH more powerful Sith than he became before his injuries [I do NOT believe this theory I don't think either created him but just for the sake of arguement], pr he had a master plan to overthrow the Jedi WITHOUT the help of Anakin in which case he probably would have been succesful. He orchestrated everything else, and the whole Jedi order was totally blind to it, so there is NO reason to believe they would have stopped him. Be-it Maul, Tyrannus, or whomever, Sidious would have killed all the Jedi with someone else [this is the version I agree with]. Remember, he already had the entire clone army programmed to turn on the Jedi and kill them all anyways. The role Anakin played in the Jedi's downfall was quite insignificant in relation to the hundreds/thousands of Jedi that the soldiers killed.
It is only through Luke, who was begotten of Anakin, that the Sith were destroyed.
In other words, if everyone had listened to Yoda, he and Obi-Wan would be dead along with the rest of the Jedi and the Sith would rule forever.
May 30th, 2005 02:29 AM
John 3:16 ^Thanks Ast Rofan^
