Originally posted by LORD B
why do you think they should be above the gauntlet?
Worlogog = Total control over creation from the Big Bang to the End.
Spear of Destiny = One of, if not the most powerfull artifact in the DCU. It is capable of beating Spectre aswell as one-shotting Thunderbolt.
And these ones are in the same group with the likes of power gem ?
😂
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Worlogog = Total control over creation from the Big Bang to the End.Spear of Destiny = One of, if not the most powerfull artifact in the DCU. It is capable of beating Spectre aswell as one-shotting Thunderbolt.
And these ones are in the same group with the likes of power gem ?
😂
Originally posted by Erik-LensherrWorlogog = Total control over creation from the Big Bang to the End.
Spear of Destiny = One of, if not the most powerfull artifact in the DCU.
It is capable of beating Spectre aswell as one-shotting Thunderbolt.And these ones are in the same group with the likes of power gem ?
As for the Spear of Desitny,
I can't make comparisons as I understand Spectre's power fluxuates,
aside from that, if that's the Spear's only feat, it lessens perspective even further.
btw. The IG is the most powerful artifact in Marvel,
only a full potential CCU gives it a run for its money in Marvel.
If that's true about the Worlogog, (where is that stated and/or depicted?)
then it should be above any single Gem and about equal to the IG,
as the IG gives its wielder control over all creation,
in fact, it makes one "god" beneath the LT.
„An exact working model of the entire space time continuum from Big Bang to Omega Point”
„In the wrong hands, the Worlogog could be used to reshape creation”
Honestly, I see the Worlogog at about HOTU's level, but to each his own.
As for the Spear of Desitny,
I can't make comparisons as I understand Spectre's power fluxuates,
aside from that, if that's the Spear's only feat, it lessens perspective even further.
Well, the Spear of Destiny has been shown and stated to be capable of beating Spectre during Ostrander's run, in which he was depicted at arguably his most consistent and high level of power. The author himself stated that he viewed Spectre as the Wrath of God whose only limitations was due to Corrigan's human perspective.
And Thunderbolt, the one who the Spear of Destiny one-shotted, is from the 5th dimension.
Re: Artifact Hierarchy
Originally posted by Entity
Weapons, objects, items of power or anything that people can use to enhance their own abilities. From the Heart of The Infinite to a legion flight ring and T'Challa's vibranium Weave suit.Infinite Power
HOTI, Infinity Guantlet,Unlimited Power
Cosmic Cube, Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, Mind Gem, Power Gem, Reality Gem, Soul Gem, Space Gem, Time Gem, The Spear of Destiny, Ultimate Nullifier, Worlogogg,Imaginable Power (Items limited only by imagination)
Darkness, Excalibur, Lanten Rings, Mjolnir, Nega Bands, Quantum Bands, WitchbladeLimited Power (Items limited by conventional means)
Black Panther's Vibranium Weave Suit, Captain America's Shield, Iron Man Armor, Legion Flight Ring,
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr„An exact working model of the entire space time continuum from Big Bang to Omega Point”
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr„In the wrong hands, the Worlogog could be used to reshape creation”
Honestly, I see the Worlogog at about HOTU's level, but to each his own.
There are several cats in Marvel that can reshape creation below the LT.
That aside,
if the Warlogog can reshape the DC Reality,
then it is perhaps equal to the Excalibur/Amulet union,
or surely equal to Excalibur.
First the on panel statements concerning Excalibur/Amulet:
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Excalibur (sword of might) and the Amulet of right together can rewrite the Cosmos:
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Cosmos, as in the Omniverse:
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Roma said, "to wield Excalibur, is to hold the hand of god himself"
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This is why Excalibur is the primary weapon wielded to guard the Omniverse:
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Those are statements from reputable sources of knowledge based individuals:
Roma (Omniversal Guardian) succeeded by Brian in this arc.
Crusader X (prime Captain Britain of this alternate Reality they're in)
Mastermind (computer generated organism created by Brian's father)
btw. That's Brian 616 receiving Excalibur.
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Excalibur/Amulet on panel Feats: Unfortunately there's not many,
don't know about the Warlogog and its on panel feats,
but I do have one feat I found on panel:
Brian remakes anew this entire alternate Universe with a gesture.
Kang, confirms the birth of this newly re-created Timeline:
Originally posted by Erik-LensherrWell, the Spear of Destiny has been shown and stated to be capable of beating Spectre during Ostrander's run, in which he was depicted at arguably his most consistent and high level of power. The author himself stated that he viewed Spectre as the Wrath of God whose only limitations was due to Corrigan's human perspective.
And Thunderbolt, the one who the Spear of Destiny one-shotted, is from the 5th dimension.
This is cool. thumb up
But is he talking about a specific universe (space/time) related to the New Gods,
or is he talking about the DC Reality?
He is talking about DC as a whole. Here is another scan confirming this :
„The stone reflects all of Creation, in miniature. Its power is theoretically limitless.”
Reshaping creation doesn't necessarily make one the Supreme Being (HOTI).There are several cats in Marvel that can reshape creation below the LT.
Total control over Creation from the Beginning to the End does bring somebody to HOTU's level, at least IMO.
And since I know next to nothing about Excalibur, I won't comment until I've read the story arc in which it's involved. Which issues does it appear in ?
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
He is talking about DC as a whole. Here is another scan confirming this :„The stone reflects all of Creation, in miniature.
Its power is theoretically limitless.”
Does it have any feat at all, or is it just a representation of creation?
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Total control over Creation from the Beginning to the End does bring somebody to HOTU's level, at least IMO.
To begin with,
you have to present some sort of feat,
that atleast gives us some perspective on it's potential, otherwise it's just talk.
Secondly, if controlling creation = being the Supreme Being (HOTI)
then there are several cats in Marvel that are = to the HOTI.
Like, (current active roster only)
1. the Living Tribunal (who spins all of Marvel's history in one hand)
2. Scathan is equal to the LT,
3. the Alien Entity (embodiment of all of Marvel's history from pre-Big Bang to now)
4. the BeyonderS (based on what a fraction of their power (CCU) can do)
5. Edifice Rex (power to revert all of history to it's pre-Big Bang state)
6. Wanda (if HOM levels still apply - we just don't know) reshaped all of Creation.
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Weapons/Artifacts: (with power/control over all of Creation)
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1. The Infinity Gauntlet
2. The Sword of Might/Amulet of Right
3. CCU (depending on the wielder)
4. Celestial Nullifier
I assure you, nor the 6 entites of power, or the 4 gadgets, come close to THOTI.
Originally posted by Erik-LensherrAnd since I know next to nothing about Excalibur,
I won't comment until I've read the story arc in which it's involved.
Which issues does it appear in ?
It's appeared in other issues aswell, it was depicted in the Earth X Trilogy,
and several other arcs.
Here Brian calls Excalibur the "Sword of Death"
(able to kill anything, like that Spear of Destiny over at DC)
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Indeed, it killed Captain Britain:
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The origin of Excalibur is unknown even to X-51 (the new Watcher)
He only knows the myth (it was forged in heaven)
Roma did call it the "Hand of god" ... so it appears so.
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But, even that is not an absolute,
for even the absolute Cosmic Consciousness of god-like Mar-vell didn't know:
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In this Reality again, the ultimate power (in terms of a weapon/artifact) is Excalibur:
(IG is of no consequence in Marvel - during this arcs publication)
Mar-vell even goes on to state that Excalibur is actually alive.
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This is a cool feat: (concerning its potentiality)
Excalibur frightened an entity,
an entity that embodied the Concept of Death/Entropy and Oblivion all in one.
in fact, Excalibur was literally able to kill this being:
His name is Jude:
Jude (the Concept of Death)
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Jude (the Concept of Entropy)
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Jude (the Concept of Oblivion)
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Jude had to obey Mephisto while he wielded Excalibur,
for fear of it's own death at the edge of the sword:
I also see a confirmation that it's capability is a theory.Does it have any feat at all, or is it just a representation of creation?
I have to disagree.To begin with,
you have to present some sort of feat,
that atleast gives us some perspective on it's potential, otherwise it's just talk.
Hourman is breaking the Worlogog into tachyons and retains only a fraction of it ..
Yet he is still capable of stoping the Big Bang of a Universe ..
Hourman also told Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern) that the Worlogog can do anything he can imagine.And I don't see why feats are needed in this case. There have been numerous statements confirming the Worlogog's potential, from different persons. It's like "hey, I don't like how powerfull they say it is so show me some feats". 😬
Secondly, if controlling creation = being the Supreme Being (HOTI)
then there are several cats in Marvel that are = to the HOTI.
Thanos with the HoTU is pretty much the top dog in Marvel yet, in order to recreate what he had destroyed, he still had to give up all the power he posessed. Not to mention that he wasn't Omnipotent, since he couldn't fix the flaw without destroying and recreating the Universe.
1. the Living Tribunal (who spins all of Marvel's history in one hand)
He is < Thanos w/HoTU. And this "spins Marvel's history in one hand" was obviously a metaphor for how he is the cosmic judge.
2. Scathan is equal to the LT,
Even you said that the Scathan situation isn't exactly conclusive and he might have been an 'agent' used by TOAA.
3. the Alien Entity (embodiment of all of Marvel's history from pre-Big Bang to now)
You've already discussed this with GalacticStorm and honestly I'm not really in the mood to start this discussion only to get to the point where we move in circles.
4. the BeyonderS (based on what a fraction of their power (CCU) can do)
They are < Living Tribunal who is < the HoTU.
5. Edifice Rex (power to revert all of history to it's pre-Big Bang state)
I don't know anything about him so I won't comment.
6. Wanda (if HOM levels still apply - we just don't know) reshaped all of Creation.
Nothing she did the Worlogog couldn't do.
Weapons/Artifacts: (with power/control over all of Creation).....................................................................
1. The Infinity Gauntlet
Not even close.
2. The Sword of Might/Amulet of Right
I'll be reading about this.
3. CCU (depending on the wielder)
4. Celestial Nullifier
I'm not too well versed in these 2 objects either although, from what I've seen, the Celestial Nulifier can erase any object in the Marvel 'Omniverse', right ? If that's the case, what exactly does it make it 'Omniversal' ? Can it erase all the 'Omniverse' at once ?
I assure you, nor the 6 entites of power, or the 4 gadgets, come close to THOTI.
If that's the case, then they don't come close to the Worlogog either.
The relevant scans I posted,
but, Excalibur version 2, entire run, 4 issues is the source.
I'll be reading it when I have time.
there was a jla volume, canrt remeber which one where luthor and his injustice gang were in full effect and he got a hold of the worlogog and he too was spouting some of that same kind of talk about its unlimited potential...plus it was a major player in the maggedon fiasco so i dont know how to rank it against marvel artifacts but i do know that it i s still serious business, so at the very least i would put it at the IG equal
