Revan, Revan, and Revan run a gauntlet.

Originally posted by Vixas
(@Carthage: Oh I am aware xD Believe me. I just happened to catch myself with a needed clarification.)

Edit: The question being: Could SoR Revan distract/hold-off Sidious long enough for the other incarnations to defeat Malgus and Bane? Or could they even defeat Malgus and Bane? (I have an opinion on this but I am posing the question for the sake of posing it)

Depending how much stock you put into him holding off strike teams its possible. Bane without an amp isn't as powerful as a force user as any incarnation of Revan. Assuming Revan Reborn can ragdoll him immediately Malgus isn't taking on two Revans. Bane is a very large weak link unless he's got a nexus and orbalisks

Originally posted by Vixas
@Chaos Theory: I would direct one such as yourself to my above post of Vader not instantly dying to Sidious' lightning. While Revan would also have experience dealing with VERY powerful lightning with a very well-honed Tutaminis skill. However I suppose this is a moot point if you believe RotJ Vader > SoR Revan.

Only really posting to point out linear power levels are garbage

Just lurking and bored otherwise

Have no real opinion on how KMC conducts debate in general seeing as I come from an entirely different school of thought on fictional character battles

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Only really posting to point out linear power levels are garbage

Just lurking and bored otherwise

Have no real opinion on how KMC conducts debate in general seeing as I come from an entirely different school of thought on fictional character battles

That I can largely agree with. I only hearken to such a quote explicitly for the use of the feat of Vader surviving Sidious' lightning for longer than a breathe, and then some. While Revan has equally impressive toughness feats and a higher developed Tutaminis ability.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That doesn't mean he can't compete. The main thing Sidious has over Revan is a quite large speed advantage, but Revan's keeping up with eight man strike teams which would have lightsaber attacks, blaster fire, and explosions from all directions pretty much constantly. Like I said, he's obviously outclassed, but that doesn't mean he can't hold his own.

I have Darth Revan perhaps more powerful than KotOR Revan. It's not my fault you don't respect a character who can defeat Kreia and the Exile at the same time.

I actually heard that from you and used it against Selenial in another debate. Her response was something like "the source of that claim has also said extremely stupid things like Nihilus would drain Revan if they fought but Revan would quickly gather his strength and defeat him after." It was something like that at least. I always wondered what your response would be to that.

Originally posted by Vixas
Oh indeed. I have no illusions of SoR Revan defeating Sidious, however. Vader DID tank Sidious' lightning for a few moments and even then he lived being dragged to the hangar through the Death Star by his son. (And then died most likely due to his suit failing) While Revan is no slouch when it comes to pain threshold. Ala: His scene of resisting Vitiate's own lightning and not relenting even as it began to melt his mask to his face.

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

Originally posted by Sinious

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

If there wasn't rough parity between Revan's power and Vitiate's Lightning he'd have been reduced to ashes like Nyriss was just chapters prior FYI

It's frankly Revan's best showing of Tutaminis, even if he did get badly burned.

I'm not saying he gets one-shot but to suggest that he could hold his own for enough time to call it decent stalling is delusional.

ROTS Sidious' lightning is AT LEAST as powerful as Novel Vitiate's

and novel Vitiate managed to take Revan out with a single attack the moment he went all out on him.

Now I know Revan increased in power by a margin after that but not enough to keep up with Sidious' lightning for that long.

Even if they are, Revan can handle them. Palpatine's lightning isn't greater than Vitiate's.

Revan's only hope was to close the gap and in this case, he would be in an even more disadvantageous position if the gap between them is closed. Also, while Sidious despises lightsaber duels, he also doesn't hesitate to engage in them in the earlier parts of his fights. So he could very well choose to dive into it right away and Revan wouldn't be powerful enough to hold him back with the force. So I guess how long it would take for Sidious to defeat Revan would depend on how Sidious engages Revan.

Originally posted by Sinious
Why do you think Sidious was going all out there?

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

To be frank? (And I re-watched the scene to clarify as memory is a faulty thing)

Luke is wearing nothing but a turtleneck and being shocked by what is obviously Sidious' equivalent of a lightning backhand. No bones showing. Even if there were Vader has much more going for him in the armor department than a turtleneck. (So much so I won't even make a joke) Yet when he lifts Sidious and the lightning strikes him, we see skeletal structure. Regardless of whether scientifically possible or not, whether or not it is Sidious' MAX is debatable, and to think he would use something MORE against Revan who is likely unknown to him, than Vader who he KNOWS is destined to destroy the Sith, has just lifted him away from shocking his son, and is carrying him toward the giant pit in his throne room he knows is there.... (Not exactly saying he KNEW Vader would throw him down it beforehand, but you get the idea) Is a bit of a stretch. Likely due to Palps personality I think he would toy with Revan at first, only for his least powerful lightning to be stopped. This, along with seeing Bane and Malgus in trouble, would make him resort to his more powerful lightning. Is it likely Revan dies? So-So. His healing is shown to be very effective.

Then it becomes a question of Sidious VS Darth Revan and "The Revan who did not just take one for the team" As I see both Revan Reborn and SoR Revan being capable of doing this. Most likely Revan Reborn though.

Originally posted by Sinious
I actually heard that from you and used it against Selenial in another debate. Her response was something like "the source of that claim has also said extremely stupid things like Nihilus would drain Revan if they fought but Revan would quickly gather his strength and defeat him after." It was something like that at least. I always wondered what your response would be to that.

It's from Chris Avellone - the guy who designed Kreia and the Exile in the first place. And nah, he says the Exile might be able to briefly slow down Revan with a Force Deafening move (an attempt at Sever Force, I guess), but "even that won't keep Revan down for long" - meaning it would be ineffective, perhaps due to the power disparity, and he would then go on to "kick the Exile's ass." 👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's from Chris Avellone - the guy who designed Kreia and the Exile in the first place. And nah, he says the Exile might be able to briefly slow down Revan with a Force Deafening move (an attempt at Sever Force, I guess), but "even that won't keep Revan down for long" - meaning it would be ineffective, perhaps due to the power disparity, and he would then go on to "kick the Exile's ass." 👆

Originally posted by Vixas
To be frank? (And I re-watched the scene to clarify as memory is a faulty thing)

Luke is wearing nothing but a turtleneck and being shocked by what is obviously Sidious' equivalent of a lightning backhand. No bones showing. Even if there were Vader has much more going for him in the armor department than a turtleneck. (So much so I won't even make a joke) Yet when he lifts Sidious and the lightning strikes him, we see skeletal structure. Regardless of whether scientifically possible or not, whether or not it is Sidious' MAX is debatable, and to think he would use something MORE against Revan who is likely unknown to him, than Vader who he KNOWS is destined to destroy the Sith, has just lifted him away from shocking his son, and is carrying him toward the giant pit in his throne room he knows is there.... (Not exactly saying he KNEW Vader would throw him down it beforehand, but you get the idea) Is a bit of a stretch. Likely due to Palps personality I think he would toy with Revan at first, only for his least powerful lightning to be stopped. This, along with seeing Bane and Malgus in trouble, would make him resort to his more powerful lightning. Is it likely Revan dies? So-So. His healing is shown to be very effective.

Then it becomes a question of Sidious VS Darth Revan and "The Revan who did not just take one for the team" As I see both Revan Reborn and SoR Revan being capable of doing this. Most likely Revan Reborn though.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
If there wasn't rough parity between Revan's power and Vitiate's Lightning he'd have been reduced to ashes like Nyriss was just chapters prior FYI

It's frankly Revan's best showing of Tutaminis, even if he did get badly burned.

Sel's point was that his analysis of how the Revan vs Nihilus fight would go is so retarded that anything else he says about these matters should be avoided.

Selenial is just upset that Revan is confirmed to be >>>> her.

I'm going to head to bed though. I'll respond to shit tomorrow.

Originally posted by Sinious
Says who?

Says the lack of human ashes and rather piddling level of energy it actually takes to burn a person in comparison.

So... high school physics

Revan fails to negate to majority of the energy?

His body becomes a nice pile of dust.

Honestly Sinious I believe that the reason it was not an exchange of energies is because Revan's skill in Force Lightning would be overshadowed by Vitiate's, and frankly if Revan's skill with Lighting was substituted for his skill in Tutaminis in that scene, more than likely it would have been an exchange much like Talzin - Sidi. With Revan as Talzin and Viti as Sidi.

*chuckles* As well as EVERYTHING Chaos said.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I would think the majority disagrees with you there.

Revan's fight with Vitiate disagrees with the majority.

Except it isn't even remotely close.

You mean after Vitiate charged up and Revan couldn't stop him because there was a 120 foot gap between them?

He can if he keeps Sidious occupied and the distance close enough that such massive Force Lightning Storms won't be taken into the equation.

Even if they are, Revan can handle them. Palpatine's lightning isn't greater than Vitiate's.

According to you. Like I said, if Revan can hold his own against eight-man strike teams in close corners, he can hold his own against Palpatine in close corners. 👆

That's a pretty weak argument don't you think? I unlike most people don't believe Revan is trash when it comes to dueling but he is facing possibly the best duelist in the mythos.

Oh and another quick point Sinious, if you are referring to the scene where Galen goes Dark Side and Sidious shocks him into the ground and leaves him incapacitated... I'm not saying the same woudln't happen to Revan if he took Sidi's lightning like that. What I am saying is Revan possesses the power, skill, knowledge and toughness to avoid getting to that point.

If not... then please tell me the scene. If you are referring to the light-side ending that actually serves to discredit Sidious as I feel I could safely say Galen's SKILL with Tutaminis is below Revan's and he has an obligatory show of power at the end before he dies stopping Sidious' lightning.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Says the lack of human ashes and rather piddling level of energy it actually takes to burn a person in comparison.

So... high school physics

Revan fails to negate to majority of the energy?

His body becomes a nice pile of dust.

I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.

Originally posted by Vixas
Honestly Sinious I believe that the reason it was not an exchange of energies is because Revan's skill in Force Lightning would be overshadowed by Vitiate's, and frankly if Revan's skill with Lighting was substituted for his skill in Tutaminis in that scene, more than likely it would have been an exchange much like Talzin - Sidi. With Revan as Talzin and Viti as Sidi.

*chuckles* As well as EVERYTHING Chaos said.

Originally posted by Sinious
I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.

So

Nyriss' remains would like to demonstrate how poorly it'd go for the human body to be hit by Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

You know

The pile of ashes

From a feat of Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

Revan through use of Tutaminis reduced that energy to severe burns, a far less energetic event for the human body in comparison to full on incineration.

This isn't exactly the most complex game of connect the dots dude

I mean, granted, maybe something's being lost here because I'm dead on my feet at almost 3 am, but... shit

Originally posted by Sinious
I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.

Revan could still hold his ground for at least a short while with his tutaminis. Perhaps the Talzin-Sidious example wasn't the one I was looking for. Change that to Sidious and Yoda. Because they are about equals in the force, that interaction ended with a stalemate. If Vitiate wasn't more powerful than Revan by a big margin, we would see something at least similar to that fight.

Ah! Well NOW I see your point and it is well-taken, and I see your logic there. However, I feel the scene between Yoda and Sidious was also largely due to their VERY, VERY close proximity to one-another as well as their clashing power. Honestly I also think the only reason Yoda "lost" that clash and went flying is due to his small stature, as Sidious flew back as well, but... well... larger object... moves less.

Originally posted by Vixas
Oh and another quick point Sinious, if you are referring to the scene where Galen goes Dark Side and Sidious shocks him into the ground and leaves him incapacitated... I'm not saying the same woudln't happen to Revan if he took Sidi's lightning like that. What I am saying is Revan possesses the power, skill, knowledge and toughness to avoid getting to that point.

If not... then please tell me the scene. If you are referring to the light-side ending that actually serves to discredit Sidious as I feel I could safely say Galen's SKILL with Tutaminis is below Revan's and he has an obligatory show of power at the end before he dies stopping Sidious' lightning.

Originally posted by Vixas
Ah! Well NOW I see your point and it is well-taken, and I see your logic there. .

However, I feel the scene between Yoda and Sidious was also largely due to their VERY, VERY close proximity to one-another as well as their clashing power. Honestly I also think the only reason Yoda "lost" that clash and went flying is due to his small stature, as Sidious flew back as well, but... well... larger object... moves less