Originally posted by Galan007
There are a few references in the Daizenshuu which state that the DBU=4 galaxies, and each one of those galaxies represents 1 quadrant of the universe.
It's not specified in the manga, but a Grand Kai is mentioned to be beneath a Kaioshin but above a regular Kai.
Originally posted by Sj_SharpThere are at least 2 references in the Daizenshuu, and a reference in both 'DBZ Son Goku Densetsu' and the 'SEG: Character Volume', which state that there are 4 galaxies in the DB universe: north, south, east, and west--and each is governed by a corresponding Kaio/Kaioshin.
However those 4 galaxies are many times referred as "cardinal galaxies" and are also called "areas"; Daizenshu 7 also states that these areas are simply administrational zones used by the Kais.By Daizenshu 7:
銀河 Galaxy
A gathering of local planets in the universe. Planets gather and form a nebula, and beyond that, a collection of gathered nebulae is called a galaxy. The four Kaiou who rule over the east, west, south, and north [sections] of the universe actually govern these galaxies. Because the Kami in the Heavenly Realm and the Kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely in all the universe, the sections known as the East, West, South, and North Galaxies are denominations that came into use through their duty.4 are thus the main zones (or quadrants, even if this specific term was nearly never used) of the DB Universe #7, but each of them contains an indefinite number of galaxies: all of this implies that the 7th DB Universe is just as big as every other universe.
You can cherry-pick that one line which makes it sound like there are 'infinite' galaxies or w/e, but there is FAR more evidence on my side, I'm afraid(look it up.) 🙂
Originally posted by Sj_SharpI'm glad you brought up Herms, because he is definitely of the opinion that there are only 4 galaxies in DB:
It has also to be specified that, according to Herms, the japanese phrasing makes sure that the wording "North Galaxy" can be as well translated as "North Galaxies", when referring to King Kai's section of the universe.
Originally posted by Herms
It's never entirely spelled out in the manga, but the guidebooks repeatedly refer to there being 4 galaxies: north, south, east, and west. There's also one guidebook line that makes it sound like there are infinite galaxies, but 4 is the general consensus.
Originally posted by Herms
Just for completion's sake, I guess I should mention that part in Daizenshuu 7's glossary that makes it sound like there are an infinite number of galaxies in the DB universeWhich is somewhat open to interpretation, and besides, various other parts of Daizenshuu 7 and other guidebooks and whatnot all say there are only 4 galaxies, so we can probably safely ignore this. Plus, the idea of the Kaios splitting an infinite number of galaxies up between themselves is hilariously futile (not that one person having to oversee an entire galaxy sounds all that workable either).
Originally posted by Herms
In Daizenshuu 7 and various other guidebooks it frequently refers to there being 4 galaxies (North, South, East, and West).
Originally posted by Herms
The guides repeatedly say there are 4 galaxies, NSEW, except for that one Daizenshuu 7 passage that implies there are infinite galaxies (which would make splitting them up into four groups a tad pointless, but I digress).All of this predates the introduction of the "12 universes" concept in BoG, so it only applies to how things are set up in Universe 7.
...And nobody knows more about Guidebook translations then that guy. 🙂
Originally posted by Sj_SharpI already mentioned that Toriyama might end up retconning the 4 galaxies fact in DBS. However, an ambiguous artistic depiction certainly doesn't constitute a retcon.
Finally, just by looking at the following picture of Beerus and Whis in space you can clearly see a whole galaxy is behind them: if the DB Universe #7 were really so small and to be made of only 4 galaxies (in the sense of galaxy as in real life), it would then mean that, in this case, the picture below would be showing more than 1/4 of the whole DBU, with Beerus and Whis outside of said galaxy and thus compulsorily stating in one of the other 3 available ones.
Something which is obviously not true and, frankly, rather ridicolus/hilarious. 😉
Originally posted by AstnerThe Guidebooks all use the term 'Areas' when referring to the portions of the universe. The term 'Quadrants' is a dub-line, but essentially refers to the same thing.
I thought it was four quadrants. As in a Kaioshin supervised a quadrant of the universe--denominated East, North, West and South quadrant. While a Kai supervised a galaxy--like the North Kai supervised the North galaxy.It's not specified in the manga, but a Grand Kai is mentioned to be beneath a Kaioshin but above a regular Kai.
Also remember that unlike the Kaio and Dai Kaio, who mostly oversee the physical realm, Kaioshin oversee ALL realms in DB. Kaioshin are also responsible for creating worlds throughout the universe and seeding them with life... There is a LOT more to that job/title than most think. 😉
Originally posted by Galan007
There are at least 2 references in the Daizenshuu, and a reference in both 'DBZ Son Goku Densetsu' and the 'SEG: Character Volume', which state that there are [b]4 galaxies in the DB universe: north, south, east, and west--and each is governed by a corresponding Kaio/Kaioshin.You can cherry-pick that one line which makes it sound like there are 'infinite' galaxies or w/e, but there is FAR more evidence on my side, I'm afraid(look it up.) 🙂
I'm glad you brought up Herms, because he is definitely of the opinion that there are only 4 galaxies in DB:
Etc.Etc.
...And nobody knows more about Guidebook translations then that guy. 🙂[/B]
But I very well agree that there are 4 galaxies in the DB Universe, even the Daizenshu I previously quoted confirms that, however the focal point is that the word "galaxy" means "area/zone", lately dubbed "quadrant" even on the very same Kanzenshuu site (by VegettoEX):
エリア Area
Means each region of the universe, which is divided into East, West, South, North. It is expressed as the "East Area" and the "West Area." The areas divided into East, West, South, North are governed by respective Kaiou.
A note below that shows the layout of the cosmos and the universe. The Kaiōshin oversee both the upper half, or the heavenly realm, and the bottom half, the world of the living. The diagram of the universe shows how it is divided into four quadrants called “galaxies” and how Earth is in the north one.
To me all of this says that these are 4 clusters (or areas) which make up the whole universe and which are called "galaxies" in name, however they are not generic galaxies in size, like the Milky Way for example, but they are a composition of other galaxies (in the actual sense of the therm itself this time) inside.
I'm thus perfectly fine with what Herms says: the 7th universe is divided in four "galaxies/areas", which are governed by the respective Kaios; the problem regards what the word "galaxy" actually means, and there's proof in favour of it implying that the DBU #7 is not that small and not made up of only 4 normal-sized-galaxies (which is, indeed, what the Daizenshu ultimately states).
At the end of the day, even Herms (who surely is the #1 source as you said) acknowledges it and opens the doors to this kind of thought:
In the manga it's vague, and that particular Daizenshuu 7 quote seems to say otherwise, but elsewhere in Daizenshuu 7 and various other guidebooks it frequently refers to there being 4 galaxies (North, South, East, and West). To go slightly more in-depth, in the manga towards the end of the Freeza arc, our familiar old Kaio suddenly calls himself the "Kaio of the North Galaxy/Galaxies". With Japanese having no true plural, and there not being any further context, it's unclear whether there's one or more galaxies in "the north". Then in the Boo arc the South Kaio shows up, and we hear about the North and South Areas. Again, we don't really know for sure if the North/South contain one or many areas, and there's no explanation on how this relates to galaxies. As mentioned, the guidebooks frequently refer to there being four galaxies, the idea apparently being that "galaxy" and "area" are synonymous. The Daizenshuu 7 glossary is an exception, and seems to say there are four areas (North, South, East, West) containing many galaxies.
Originally posted by Galan007
I already mentioned that Toriyama might end up retconning the 4 galaxies fact in DBS. However, an ambiguous artistic depiction certainly doesn't constitute a retcon.
Well, because of the previous reasons I personally don't think that AT has to retcon anything: indeed, AFAK it was never officially stated by him that the DB Universe effectively is very small, containing just 4 normal-sized-galaxies: in such a case, that screenshot from DBS would for example make zero sense.
However sure thing is that the whole situation is ambiguous and vague, and open to different interpretations, but as you said DBS will probably almost surely clarify this up. 👆
Originally posted by ares834
Well they were going to destroy the universe, so yes.Duh.
Interestingly, it seems to have something to do with how the universe carries shockwaves and such, rather than raw at-point power. Like, it's not an explosion that destroys things, but multiple blows will create shockwaves that destroy things.
So, it's universe destroying but reliant on the resonance of their universe.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Deathbattle: "Unfortunately for Goku, he still has limits. Superman on the other hand, has no limits."
Pssh, there's multiple characters stronger than him. Pre-crisis may have no limits, but post does.
Originally posted by Q99So you're saying this is a universal feat only in the DBverse?
Interestingly, it seems to have something to do with how the universe carries shockwaves and such, rather than raw at-point power. Like, it's not an explosion that destroys things, but multiple blows will create shockwaves that destroy things.So, it's universe destroying but reliant on the resonance of their universe.
Originally posted by Astner
So is Dragon Ball Super worth watching?
To me? I'd say yes.
I liked a lot the first episodes, then it had an abysmal low-quality period (I'm still shocked for Episode 5 😠 ) but now It's going quite good.
I would pick the manga over the anime anytime, however the former lacks some context since it must be much more stringent.
Another thing you have to remember though is that DBS is "new Dragon Ball material", i.e. something where things happen randomly and sometime contradict themselves: if your love for DB is strong enough to overcome this (mine is, but barely... 🙄 ) then the show is worth the time. 👆
Each Kaio watches over their respective galaxy/area of the universe. The Dai Kaio(Grand Kai) supervises the Kaio.
The Kaioshin not only supervise the Dai Kaio and Kaio, but they also monitor the universe as a whole. Additionally, they monitor all of the metaphysical realms within the DBU, like Heaven, Hell, Limbo, the Demon realm, etc. etc. It is also the job of Kaioshin to create planets throughout the universe and seed them with life--a task that would be absolutely time-consuming in itself.
It's no wonder Kaioshin was out of touch with the happenings of the mortal realm during the Boo saga--he had to do all of that by himself.
Back in the day, the South Kaioshin, for example, would have more closely monitored the happenings of that particular galaxy/area(he might see things the Kaio did not), and would have also been responsible for the 'upkeep'(ie. the creation of worlds/lifeforms) within that portion of the universe... That's what the function of each Kaioshin would have been.
