No doubt, comics are fluid and characters can out perform/under perform relative to characters in their same tier...
However, if it were up to me, it would make more sense; Thor wouldnt be tanking Celestial attacks without a really good explanation as to why (he'd also have to possess a super-duper amp to boot)...
A character with the ability to bust a planet that fails to to KO a Herald would similarly be explained; it wouldnt "just happen" like it currently does...
So with my system, things would remain fluid, it would just have to be explained "why" certain characters are performing above or below their stations...
What a given character represents should be considered, but still scaled down...
For example, in current comics a Phobos sized object is nothing...a meta might be able to bust it...but in reality that Phobos sized object is a monster fully capable of eliminating all life on the surface of the Earth and has has the mass of a mountain range (it weighs billions and billions of tons).
Busting it would be a monumental feat; especially from the eyes of a meta (in the OP), such a feat would appear God-like...
But in current comics, things are so inflated that busting this object would be ho-hum for a great many characters...
This would (and should IMHO) definitely change...
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Apr 6th, 2013 at 05:04 AM
I love making charts and scales regarding characters' powers and abilities, so I can relate to your objective. But consider the following, eg...
I have to know which moon means what, and how big it is? I think things would be simpler if you set a standard for each tier, Eg, from the above: Low Herald can still mean a Deimosbuster, and this would be a unit of *1*. Mid Herald, then, could simply be *2* (or 3, etc). Also, because this is a relative scale to some degree, it gives leeway for characters' outlier feats.
On the other hand, going in the opposite direction, energy/matter manip can get really complicated. Are you saying Low, Mid and High Herald can all do the same thing to the same degree? Eg, all can rearrange molecules And transmute elements on a moon-size scale?
I don't mean to nitpick; I'm playing Devil's Advocate more than anything. But based on my own experience with setting up tiers and stuff (and as you alluded with your own efforts), this can be quite the undertaking. Things could get simplified with separate scales for each ability (strength, durability, e/m manip), but then one starts venturing into territory the comics have already handled in a simpler fashion.
I dunno. It's fun to play with this stuff, but it ain't easy.
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Here is my two cents, I also think on affected areas when I try to measure characters
Human: Defined as a regular Human, just like US.
Low: Out of shape, or physically or mentally impaired
Middle: Normal People
High: Fit to Athlete level
Street level: defined as any human on costume with at least certain proficiency on a field be that fighting, camouflage, fire arms, armed combat very important, this is though TRAINING, NO META GENES, OR MUTANT GENES on action
low: Robin
middle: Nightwing
high: Batman
Meta human/mutant: any human with at least an extra gene that gives him an ability, be that bending spoons, shape shifting or an extraordinary ability, but this is due to some genetically difference from a human, it does not necessarily means that a low meta can defeat a high street level. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.
Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a house to a building
Mid: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover mid range area from building to several blocks
High: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from several blocks to a city
Super Human/Herald. Majority of the genes differ from humans, be that due to gaining powers though freak accident or embed with them. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.
Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a city to a country
Mid : at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a mid range area from a country to a continent
High :at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from a continent to a planet
Super human/Herald Team Wrecker: an individual capable of fighting a team or a group of meta humans or super humans
Low : capable of fight a team composed of meta humans
Mid: capable of fight a team composed of meta humans and heralds
High :capable of fight a team composed of heralds/super humans
Trans the highest tier onto characters who still abide to SOME rules of logic.
Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover more than one planet to 4 planets
Mid: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover more than 4 planets
High: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a solar system
Skyfather At least 1 ability that defies the laws of logic or capable of destroy/affect/cover several planes of reality up to a galaxy, still bounded by decrees of Abstract entities
Low
Mid
High
Elder Defies laws of logic still bounded by decrees of Abstract entities, Capable of defeating Skyfathers
Low
Mid
High
Cube at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover a large are of the universe to one universe at a time, NOT capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees
Low
Mid
High
Abstract
Low
Mid
High
Universal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover one universe at a time, capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees
Low
Mid
High
Multiversal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover several universes capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees
Low
Mid
High
Omniversal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover everything capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees
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Last edited by Rao Kal El on Apr 6th, 2013 at 06:15 PM
Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
I fixed this a little bit
Correction
I meant
1 OR MORE ABILITIES where this fits
EJ:
Meta human/mutant: any human with at least an extra gene that gives him an ability, be that bending spoons, shape shifting or an extraordinary ability, but this is due to some genetically difference from a human, it does not necessarily means that a low meta can defeat a high street level. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.
Low: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a house to a building
Mid: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover mid range area from building to several blocks
High: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from several blocks to a city
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Thank You Prof. T.C McAbe, You are Superman!
Last edited by Rao Kal El on Apr 6th, 2013 at 06:27 PM
Re: Revamping the tierings/power levels in comics...
The issue with most if not all tier systems I've seen is that they tend to look only at destructive power or (on lower levels) fighting ability to gauge placement. You end up with tiering systems that aren't very useful, because characters like Batman and to a greater extent Reed Richards punch out of their weight classes.
I think normal people don't even register as "street level" in ordinary forum parlance. I would argue that "Brock Lesnar" would be the bottom of the barrel of comic book hero ability, the kind of "good fighter, physically fit, nothing special by comic standards" character, maybe a friend of a hero who gets training because he/she gets kidnapped all the time.
As for "enhanced", I'm concerned that lots of characters qualify for Low Enhanced who aren't all on the same level. Someone like Green Arrow for instance could probably beat up hordes of normal guys without much trouble, but so could lots of stronger, more skilled characters who don't qualify for Mid or High.
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to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Last edited by Omega Vision on Apr 6th, 2013 at 06:50 PM
I've always looked at two things to gauge "how powerful" a character is -
- How much can he/she destroy with a single blow?
- How much would it take to destroy this character with a single blow?
I've also tended to focus on Strength, Durability and Speed, breaking down energy/matter manip separately (and in here, mentioning how much so-n-so could destroy).
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Last edited by Mindship on Apr 6th, 2013 at 09:27 PM
I agree with this completely it's one of the reasons comics have so many WTF moments. Many of which are never explained some characters and writers need to be reigned in regarding what character A,B, or C can do by giving limits IMHO it will force writers to be more creative. Because at a certain point writers start to pull powers and abilities out of their asses just to tell there story.
Next to each moon I have its diameter listed; while diameter isnt the be-all concerning mass, it just gives a rough frame of reference where each object is bigger and more massive than the one before it...for example:
Deimos has the mass of a mountain...
Phobos has the mass of a mountain range (it would about the size of the mountain range Molecule Man dropped on the heroes in the original Secret War)...
And so on and so on...
So a Low Herald would be able to "do" things on the scale of Deimos; it could be by object busting, or overall matter/enegy manip, or something similar in scale...
Now when it comes to characters with mind control powers or something not standard, its more of a judgement call when trying to put in terms of "approximate Deimos affecting ability" (for example, maybe a character with Mental Powers that ranks as a Low Herald could touch the minds of 100 people, while a Mental Powered Mid Herald could touch the minds of 1000 people...again, just for example).
The overall idea is to have a system in place where there are parameters defining each tier (and section of that tier); what I posted in the OP is just an example of a system I think writers should follow, but I have no doubt that better systems than mines are fully possible...
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Apr 10th, 2013 at 12:27 AM
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