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Imperiex probe vs Annihilators
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DarkSaint85
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Because you're giving a no limits fallacy. Can the Universal Weapon transmute the LT? We know he has physical skin.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 07:56 AM
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Stoic
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It isn't a no limits fallacy when these Probes that were entropy proof, fell to forces that weren't entropy. That would be more like you saying that the Probes had no limit to their resistance, as long as we ignore all the times that they were broken. Argue around it if you want, I'm just not convinced.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:13 AM
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DarkSaint85
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But you're the one asserting he can transmute them.

So onus is on you to prove that claim. Using a magical piercing item like the Trident of Poseidon isn't proof.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:22 AM
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Stoic
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List anyone, or anything that broke a Probe. Did they hit it with entropy? Why does it seem like their success is exclusive to them, and only them? You've failed to answer why it would absolutely fail, and instead made this about something that he was never in the position to do. Meanwhile the Probes have holes in them from more than one source. I don't think it's some kind of struggle DS. The UW just has a funtion that makes matter pliable, among other abilities..

If it didn't work in the DC universe, even though it should, it would definitely work in the Marvel universe.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:46 AM
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DarkSaint85
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It was already given on page 1 of this thread lol.

Now list the items the Universal Weapon has transmuted.

'makes matter pliable'? So Mjolnir, Hulk, Living Tribunal can all be transmuted? Infinity Gauntlet? Surfer's board?


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 09:36 AM
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Stoic
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was already given on page 1 of this thread lol.

Now list the items the Universal Weapon has transmuted.

'makes matter pliable'? So Mjolnir, Hulk, Living Tribunal can all be transmuted? Infinity Gauntlet? Surfer's board?


That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 10:16 AM
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DarkSaint85
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But they are all molecules are they not? Molecules are molecules. Or are you saying they have levels now?

What is the most durable item the UW has transmuted? Simple q.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 10:34 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?


Is the living tribunal still dead


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 10:36 AM
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Gladiator knocks its head off.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 04:40 PM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?


Your argument is molecules are molecules. That implies that Ronan can transmute anything that has molecules. Is that you stance?


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 05:54 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
Molecules are molecules though. Ronans weapon would slay it.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 05:56 PM
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It's frankly quite amazing how bad some people are at not only debating, but simple rationalization.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 06:59 PM
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carver9
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Any of the Annihilators can win this.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:13 PM
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MrMind
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Any of the Annihilators can win this.


so you wanna bz ronan can beat the probe that wrecked the JLA then?


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:30 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Carver never BZs because he knows he'll get slaughtered. He'll just give an excuse about not having the time or something silly.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 08:32 PM
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Diesldude
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by panthergod
So..?

Pokolistan Zod is superior to Any member of the Annihilators.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by panthergod
He was originally intended to be the PRe-Crisis Superman, and dominated Superman.

So.. yes, FAR above any single member of the Annihilators in raw power and formidability.


Crap I wish PG was here to elaborate more on his second post.

Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 09:20 PM
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Who's on the annihilators again? Surfer, Nova, Bill, Glads, Ronan...? Am I missing anyone. Quasar maybe? Bill could. Surfer could. Quasar is suspect. Nova could but then he'd die. Glads toss-up. Ronan no.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 09:51 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Generally these guys:

(please log in to view the image)

And yeah, I'd agree with your assessment.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2020 10:10 PM
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Stoic
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Is the living tribunal still dead


No. LT really doesn't ever die.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by h1a8
Your argument is molecules are molecules. That implies that Ronan can transmute anything that has molecules. Is that you stance?


Anything that does not have the ability to replace the corrupted molecules, such as in the Hulk's case, or actively absorb the matter manipulation energy, and redirect it, such as in Mjolnir's case are extremely rare exceptions. The Hulk doesn't actually resist anything he just reforms the missing, or corrupted molecules via HF.

The Hulk, Mjolnir, and every other thing and/or character mentioned are different than a Probe. Indestructible is just that. If the Probes were indestructible nothing would be able to destroy them. Several different sources did just that. Why does the UW fail? Stellaris was pretty tough as well, but Ronan defeated her with ease when he matter manipulates her armor turning it to molten slag. Stellaris fought evenly with Thor, and Hercules. In certain cases Ronan is actually very powerful because of the weapon's ability to defy molecular composition. But this apparently wouldn't work while the Probes have been cited to have been trashed by several different sources, which continuously challenges the idea that these Probes were beyond harm. Wouldn't you call that hype?


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2020 05:33 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But they are all molecules are they not? Molecules are molecules. Or are you saying they have levels now?

What is the most durable item the UW has transmuted? Simple q.


He turned Stellaris into molten slag with zero effort.


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2020 05:37 AM
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