Cassie hasn't been quite as good since she learned to talk... and I don't even believe she was in Batman's level before that.. close, but not quite. Joker kicked her ass in a hand to hand fight.
Batman has beaten Shiva.
Connor is definately way out of the way, as even his own father proved time and time again to be better hand to hand... Solomon Grundy anyone?
It's also a well known fact that Batman has surpassed all of his trainers. Wildcat, Shiva, Al Ghul and Cain to name a few.. I would include Dragon in there too.
And opposed to what the guy said earlier about Batman knowing 127 Martial Arts, The Batman Handbook states Batman is a renowned master of ALL world martial arts.
"Cassie hasn't been quite as good since she learned to talk... and I don't even believe she was in Batman's level before that.. close, but not quite. Joker kicked her ass in a hand to hand fight."
Overall she is still on a league above. Im counting her confrontations with Batman and Shiva, both clean and objective showings that makes her better. Now if she gets more low showings its something else.
"Batman has beaten Shiva"
On a clean fight? He never did as far as i know. You are probably reffering to the Superman/Batman tussle, where she was being mind controlled.
"Connor is definately way out of the way, as even his own father proved time and time again to be better hand to hand... Solomon Grundy anyone"
Groundy isent always top level. He fluctuates way too much. Ollie isent and never was better than his son in that department, Connor showed what he knows with the fight he gave to Shiva. His dad is the best archer by far and knows moves but compared with these guys hes mostly a brawler.
"It's also a well known fact that Batman has surpassed all of his trainers. Wildcat, Shiva, Al Ghul and Cain to name a few.. I would include Dragon in there too."
That would be wrong, pre crisis wise and post crisis, he was never considered better or equal than Dragon. Not even Bronze Tiger.
Batman once attacked him and Dragon who was on the defensive blocked easily three straight attacks. He also defeated once an amped martial artist that Bruce couldnt. Hes on a league above.
Bronze Tiger also has a clean record. One win and one brief stalemate.
"And opposed to what the guy said earlier about Batman knowing 127 Martial Arts, The Batman Handbook states Batman is a renowned master of ALL world martial arts"
Many guys in comics are referenced that way. KK, Dragon, Shang Shi, just to name some.
You see that disc I just uploaded? It contained all the fighting information of the world's very top martial artists. .... One of them is you.
Batgirl got beat up by JOKER IN A HAND TO HAND FIGHT.
The only she was able to beat Shiva, was because Shiva had a deathwish and wanted Batgirl to fulfill it. Also, it's still not clear or not, but she may very well be her mother.
Connor is nowhere near the top of the list, one random decent showing does not factor in when Connor has been getting his ass kicked even by throwaway villains.. for most of the last 10 years. He's not even on Arsenals level, who is deathly afraid of Batman.
"Batgirl got beat up by JOKER IN A HAND TO HAND FIGHT.
The only she was able to beat Shiva, was because Shiva had a deathwish and wanted Batgirl to fulfill it. Also, it's still not clear or not, but she may very well be her mother."
Shiva and Cassie had two fights that im aware of. She did well on both. Against Batman she was getting the better h2h. One low showing from a guy that has also been able to hurt Batman before doesnt undue what she done before. Not yet at least.
"Connor is nowhere near the top of the list, one random decent showing does not factor in when Connor has been getting his ass kicked even by throwaway villains.. for most of the last 10 years. He's not even on Arsenals level, who is deathly afraid of Batman."
Like Batman never had problems with tugs.
He has way higher h2h showings than Arsenal does. Arsenal has no bussines here.
Originally posted by Draco69
Have I taught thou nothing? She has several millenia mastering every form of martial arts there is. She mastered Akido and its various forms by age 3. She mastered swordplay by age 4. As she grew older, her marital arts library grew and grew.Think about it. She's been trained by a war god with extensive knowledge of every form of martial combat there ever was and women from all across the globe with thousands of years of martial arts knowledge.
It's really no brainer.
She doesn't have much a chance to display it though. One hit usually implodes a man's head.
Too true Draco I've always thought it was a shame she never gets to really use her skills and that even though she's been trained by Ares, Athena and Artemis people somehow think Batman or Deathstroke are more skilled they aren't.
Why are people listing two Batmans?
Originally posted by wolverine8888
ya but it seems like it was more power then skill batman hit him more times just had no effect.
Although it's not shown, Azrael had just finished fighting the spirit of St. Dumas, his patron saint. He was also supposed to be dead, according to the doctors and Batman.
"Too true Draco I've always thought it was a shame she never gets to really use her skills and that even though she's been trained by Ares, Athena and Artemis people somehow think Batman or Deathstroke are more skilled they aren't. "
Dig out more of her appearances- from Batman to Deathstroke and Black Canary to Superman she is one of the top " bricks" that regulary shows more skills.
"Why are people listing two Batmans"
Because regular Bats doesnt cut it to the top.
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