Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
There has been no instance, yet that doesn't mean only Loki can do so. That's a fallacy.Did you watch the beginning of Black Panther? MCU considers Vibranium the strongest metal. Asgard weapons aren't vibranium, or atleast hasn't been mentioned.
Quote the actual statement that says vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU. Otherwise you're just inventing stuff.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Actually it's the other way around.If you want to claim that your character is immune to something you have to prove it.
I've already proven that Thor can be stabb by a weapon less strong than Vibranium. If you wan't to claim that Thor is immune to stabs, then prove it.
Both Loki and Thor have taken a full hit to the face with Cap's shield and didn't even get a rash from it. Thor didn't do anything more than blink. Yet this shield is 1. made of vibranium 2. has been shown to easily cut through cement and steel and 3. was thrown by someone of comparable strength to the panthers.
Also consider that every time an Asgardian has been shot at they have proven to be bulletproof, thus obviously showing that they have a high degree of penetration durability. In AoS, an Asgardian farmer caught a tactical knife by the blade and crumpled it in his hand. Again, proving that Asgardian physiology is highly resistant to man-made weaponry.
So if you want to claim that the panthers' claws can cut through Thor as easily as Loki's knife does, onus is on you to prove that. We know that the panthers are nowhere near as strong as Loki which is a big factor and we know that every weapons Loki has used to stab Thor were magically imbued Asgardian weapons... and it only makes sense that Asgardian weapons would be capable of taking out Asgardians.
Then there's also the fact that even after getting stabbed by Loki, Thor continued to fight on without issues. And like I said, the claws are only about an inch long, far shorter than Loki's knives or Gungir. Even if the claws can penetrate Thor's armor + hide, all they'll do is give him flesh wounds.
Originally posted by Blindside12
The problem with using the "its from Asgard" is that it is a no limits fallacy. Just because its from Asgard doesn't mean its always automatically superior to anything in the other nine realms.
No, it doesn't make it superior, but that same logic also applies to Vibranium. It's the strongest metal known to humankind but how does it compare to the metals of other realms or planets?
Asgardian weapons have been proven to be effective against Asgardians and other beings of similar toughness. On the other hand, we have no feats from Vibranium weapons that show them being as effective against beings as tough as Asgardians.
So no, it's not a no limits fallacy, because as of the moment Asgardian weapons have better piercing feats than Vibranium weapons.
Originally posted by Blindside12
The problem with using the "its from Asgard" is that it is a no limits fallacy. Just because its from Asgard doesn't mean its always automatically superior to anything in the other nine realms.
You don't appear to understand the argument being made or what constitutes a no limits fallacy.
Originally posted by FrothByte
No, it doesn't make it superior, but that same logic also applies to Vibranium. It's the strongest metal known to humankind but how does it compare to the metals of other realms or planets?Asgardian weapons have been proven to be effective against Asgardians and other beings of similar toughness. On the other hand, we have no feats from Vibranium weapons that show them being as effective against beings as tough as Asgardians.
So no, it's not a no limits fallacy. Because as far as feats go, Asgardian melee weapons > Vibranium melee weapons.
But that is still a no limits fallacy ie "Vibranium hasnt even been shown to hurt an Asgardian therefore it cant."
I agree with SM that they could hurt an Asgardian. To what degree its impossible to assume that because there are no direct feats of it happening.
Originally posted by Blindside12
But that is still a no limits fallacy ie "Vibranium hasnt even been shown to hurt an Asgardian therefore it cant."I agree with SM that they could hurt an Asgardian. To what degree its impossible to assume that because there are no direct feats of it happening.
Err no, that's not a no limits fallacy. A no limits fallacy would be saying that vibranium can cut any being regardless of how tough they are just because its vibranium.
Asgardian weapons have been shown to pierce beings that are normally immune to human-made melee weapons. Vibranium doesn't have feats to match. All I'm saying is Asgardian weapons have better feats than Vibranium weapons. That's not a no-limits fallacy.
Now just to be clear, I'm not saying that vibranium can't actually pierce Asgardian hide, I'm just pointing out that just because something can be done with an Asgardian magical dagger, it doesn't mean that feat can easily be replicated with a vibranium claw.
"Vibranium is a fictional metal appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. It is most commonly known as one of the materials used to construct Captain America's shield, and it is also noted for its connection to Black Panther, as his suit is made from vibranium and is found in his native homeland of Wakanda (a fictional country in Africa)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium
So a meteor crashed there?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Both Loki and Thor have taken a full hit to the face with Cap's shield and didn't even get a rash from it. Thor didn't do anything more than blink. Yet this shield is 1. made of vibranium 2. has been shown to easily cut through cement and steel and 3. was thrown by someone of comparable strength to the panthers.Also consider that every time an Asgardian has been shot at they have proven to be bulletproof, thus obviously showing that they have a high degree of penetration durability. In AoS, an Asgardian farmer caught a tactical knife by the blade and crumpled it in his hand. Again, proving that Asgardian physiology is highly resistant to man-made weaponry.
So if you want to claim that the panthers' claws can cut through Thor as easily as Loki's knife does, onus is on you to prove that. We know that the panthers are nowhere near as strong as Loki which is a big factor and we know that every weapons Loki has used to stab Thor were magically imbued Asgardian weapons... and it only makes sense that Asgardian weapons would be capable of taking out Asgardians.
Then there's also the fact that even after getting stabbed by Loki, Thor continued to fight on without issues. And like I said, the claws are only about an inch long, far shorter than Loki's knives or Gungir. Even if the claws can penetrate Thor's armor + hide, all they'll do is give him flesh wounds.
The shield comparisson is irrelevant!
In no way is a shield comparable to a knife/claw!
A shield can cut yes, but the amount of force required is much much much higher.
Again, Loki's knife was able to pierce him with no effort.
Why shouldnt T'Challa or Killmonger with vibranium claws be able to do so? There is no actual feat that prevents them from doing so. Else give me one.
Originally posted by Blindside12
"Vibranium is a fictional metal appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. It is most commonly known as one of the materials used to construct Captain America's shield, and it is also noted for its connection to Black Panther, [b]as his suit is made from vibranium and is found in his native homeland of Wakanda (a fictional country in Africa)."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium
So a meteor crashed there? [/B]
Vibranium is an Alien metal. But yes it can be found in Africa/Wakanda.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The shield comparisson is irrelevant!In no way is a shield comparable to a knife/claw!
A shield can cut yes, but the amount of force required is much much much higher.
Again, Loki's knife was able to pierce him with no effort.
Why shouldnt T'Challa or Killmonger with vibranium claws be able to do so? There is no actual feat that prevents them from doing so. Else give me one.
1. Loki is far stronger than the panthers. Piercing ability is heavily dependent on the force behind it. You can't use Loki piercing Thor as proof the panthers can do it because they're not as strong as Loki. Are you too stupid to understand this? It's like saying a toddler can cut a rhino with a knife just because an adult can cut a rhino with a knife.
2. Loki uses magically imbued Asgardian daggers. The Panthers are using vibranium claws. They are not using the same weaponry nor the same technology. The feats from one weapon are not transferable to the other.
3. A thrown projectile normally hits with more force than that same projectile being driven by hand. Cap's shield also has more mass than the panther claws. In short, yes the shield is not as sharp as the claws but it also hits with more force when thrown as compared to a claw slash.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I knew thats what you'd say.And clearly, you are misunderstanding the whole scene.
1. Thor is the God of Thunder: Would you mind pay attention what destroyed the city? Wasnt it Thor's own lightning?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6hAatHQi0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m8fuqhGS-qc
Both in the Empire States and in Asgard Thor received powerful blasts from lightning with 0 damage. But again, those are his attacks and his power.
Im not here to discuss what destroyed Sokovia. If it was the strike from Thor, his lightning , the Vibranium machine, a combo of all 3, who cares, thats not the point.
The point is that there was an explosion that reduced Sokovia to rubble. Thor was right in the middle of that blast and survived.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. Mjolnir works as an Energy shield: You do realize that Mjolnir actually protects Thor from Energy blasts right?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Z8kMXRpSI
Min 3:29:
Thor clearly repels Energy blasts with his hammer.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_rv1EZ3rv0
Min 1:10:
Mjolnir clearly blocked Surtur's attack.
Now, what was Thor holding between him and the explosion of Sokovia?
Thor isnt immune to energy attacks. Thor has a high resistance but enough energy should do with him.
The hammer doesn't work as an energy shield all around Thor . If you have proof then post it.
Every time Thor has blocked an attack he has aim to where the attack is coming at him from. The hammer doesnt give him an 360 degree full body shield around Thor.
The Sokovia blast was all around Thor, not just in front of his hammer. Plus Thor didn't have the hammer up trying to block the blast. Even of he did it wouldn't have shielded him from the full blast that was all around him.
To think that Thor blocked the blast of that magnitude from every angle with his hammer is nonsense.
Anyhow, to simplify this further.
Even Hulk pounding Thor on the ground for a while didnt KO Thor.
Neither of the Panthers have enough physical force to beat Thor that way.
If they try to beat him with cutting or scratching him they will be close enough for Thor to 1 shot them.
Superficial wounds wont keep Thor from killing these 2 when they get close, when more powerful foes(than these 2) wounding Thor haven't slowed him down before.
This is a spite thread. Thor 10/10
Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Loki is far stronger than the panthers. Piercing ability is heavily dependent on the force behind it. You can't use Loki piercing Thor as proof the panthers can do it because they're not as strong as Loki. Are you too stupid to understand this? It's like saying a toddler can cut a rhino with a knife just because an adult can cut a rhino with a knife.2. Loki uses magically imbued Asgardian daggers. The Panthers are using vibranium claws. They are not using the same weaponry nor the same technology. The feats from one weapon are not transferable to the other.
3. A thrown projectile normally hits with more force than that same projectile being driven by hand. Cap's shield also has more mass than the panther claws. In short, yes the shield is not as sharp as the claws but it also hits with more force when thrown as compared to a claw slash.
1. Again, there is nothing to suggest that only Loki can penetrate Thor. Now if you have evidence of such then bring them on board!
2. AGAIN! There is no evidence to suggest that only Asgardian Daggers can do so. The fact is this: Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU (Asgard included), WHICH BY LOGIC should be enough to suggest that Vibranium claws can cut Thor. Are you so stupid as to understand this?
3. You can't compare a bullet with a Vibranium weapon! WTH! That's right, more mass and more surface area which makes it more difficult to cut things. It's basic physics knowledge!
Originally posted by Inhuman
Im not here to discuss what destroyed Sokovia. If it was the strike from Thor, his lightning , the Vibranium machine, a combo of all 3, who cares, thats not the point.The point is that there was an explosion that reduced Sokovia to rubble. Thor was right in the middle of that blast and survived.
The hammer doesn't work as an energy shield all around Thor . If you have proof then post it.
Every time Thor has blocked an attack he has aim to where the attack is coming at him from. The hammer doesnt give him an 360 degree full body shield around Thor.
The Sokovia blast was all around Thor, not just in front of his hammer. Plus Thor didn't have the hammer up trying to block the blast. Even of he did it wouldn't have shielded him from the full blast that was all around him.To think that Thor blocked the blast of that magnitude from every angle with his hammer is nonsense.
Anyhow, to simplify this further.
Even Hulk pounding Thor on the ground for a while didnt KO Thor.
Neither of the Panthers have enough physical force to beat Thor that way.
If they try to beat him with cutting or scratching him they will be close enough for Thor to 1 shot them.
Superficial wounds wont keep Thor from killing these 2 when they get close, when more powerful foes(than these 2) wounding Thor haven't slowed him down before.This is a spite thread. Thor 10/10
Did you read what i wrote?
The attack is coming from Thor and he has the Hammer between him and the blast
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Z8kMXRpSI
OMG!!!!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Z8kMXRpSI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_rv1EZ3rv0
WOULD YOU CARE TO LOOK AT THE VIDEOS?
It's more than evident that Mjolnir protects Thor from energy attacks, to say otherwise is being biased!
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. Again, there is nothing to suggest that only Luki can penetrate Thor. Now if you have evidence of such then bring them on board!2. AGAIN! There is no evidence to suggest that only Asgardian Daggers can do so. The fact is this: Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU (Asgard included), WHICH BY LOGIC should be enough to suggest that Vibranium claws can cut Thor. Are you so stupid as to understand this?
3. You can't compare a bullet with a Vibranium weapon! WTH! That's right, more mass and more surface area which makes it more difficult to cut things. It's basic physics knowledge!
1. Correct, it's not only Loki who can cut Thor. It would be anyone of Loki's strength range or over. If you want to claim that people of lesser strength than Loki can cut Thor up then you have to prove it. I already proved to you that a thrown vibranium shield didn't even so much as leave a red line on Thor's face. Ball is in your court, I provided my proof, time you backed up your words with proof.
1.5 Are you saying that strength doesn't play a factor in whether a weapon can cut/stab through a target?
2. I keep asking you to provide a quote that says Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU... you keep dodging. There's nothing to suggest that Vibranium claws can replicate feats made by Asgardian magical daggers. If you want to claim they are then where is the proof?
3. Cap's shield has cut through cement and steel. If you want to claim that the claws can cut better then please provide proof. Remember that a claw tip is not sharpened like a razor. They're pointed but they don't have a sharpened edge, so you can't really claim that the claws are sharper than Cap's shield. And like I said, how serious an injury do you think 1-inch claws are going to do against Thor?
Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Correct, it's not only Loki who can cut Thor. It would be anyone of Loki's strength range or over. If you want to claim that people of lesser strength than Loki can cut Thor up then you have to prove it. I already proved to you that a thrown vibranium shield didn't even so much as leave a red line on Thor's face. Ball is in your court, I provided my proof, time you backed up your words with proof.1.5 Are you saying that strength doesn't play a factor in whether a weapon can cut/stab through a target?
2. I keep asking you to provide a quote that says Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU... you keep dodging. There's nothing to suggest that Vibranium claws can replicate feats made by Asgardian magical daggers. If you want to claim they are then where is the proof?
3. Cap's shield has cut through cement and steel. If you want to claim that the claws can cut better then please provide proof. Remember that a claw tip is not sharpened like a razor. They're pointed but they don't have a sharpened edge, so you can't really claim that the claws are sharper than Cap's shield. And like I said, how serious an injury do you think 1-inch claws are going to do against Thor?
1. What evidence you have of such? The movie never claimed so! Nor is there a feat of a weaker person than Loki not being able to cut through Thor. Again, that is a fallacy. The shield feat is irrelevant, a shield doesn't equal a knife.
1.5 No, am not saying that, am saying Loki was able to cut him, and that there is no evidence to suggest that it requires Loki's strength to do so. Period.
2. Okay, it seems evident that you haven't watch Black Panther or are just deciding to obmit the first minutes of the movie. Or are you trolling? Which one is it Froth?
3. If you can't grasp the concept of a Knife being a better cutting tool than a Shield, then evidently there is something wrong with you. By logic, 1 inch wounds as maximum cutting dept, but it requires less than an Inch slice to cut through a vital vein.
Again Froth. Do you have Hammerless Thor feats to give him an advantage here?
Yes or No?
If no, then it's evident where the balance of this battle lies (That is ofcourse if you are not being biased)