Star Trek Vs. Star Wars

Originally posted by jaden101
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWbta.html

I presume you mean that page rather than the link you gave?

Oh. Yeah. 😮

I'm not up on the EU so I realize my answer isn't gonna be worth much.

For the Trek tv shows versus the SW movies, I'd give it to Trek. Transporters, weapons with huge ranges, etc. In the movies, the Death Star was able to destroy a planet but it was unheard of. The idea that anything could destroy a planet was just unbelievable to the characters. In Star Trek, such a thing wasn't nearly so unheard of.

I understand that in the EU, SW has much greater tech though I have no idea if it is on the level of transporters and the sheer level of tech Star Trek displays.

I'm a Star Wars fan but an old friend pointed out that the STU has the Q to back them up. The most powerful entities from the SWU I can think of are DE Sidious, Exar Kun, Bane, Kreia, Nihilus, etc.

For sake of a better debate, the thread starter set certain stipulations, this is more of a ship/personnel battle, than an 'anything goes'. More to see who has the better technology; not uber beings.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but there's an equivalent thread like this in the star wars forum. I hypothesize that:

in this thread (didn't read), most people will say "STAR TREK WINS!"

and vice versa in other thread.

More to see who has the better technology; not uber beings.

Star Trek has omnipotence. Star Wars can't counter that. As the original contention was over technology levels, I tried to confine it to the reasonable; "Q turns the Death Star into a Christmas tree ornament" was the opposite of what I wanted to see.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Sorry if this has already been posted, but there's an equivalent thread like this in the star wars forum. I hypothesize that:

in this thread (didn't read), most people will say "STAR TREK WINS!"

and vice versa in other thread.

The key difference between the threads, this one has objectivity and logic was/is applied.

Another difference, this one didn't degrade into a fanboy insult exchange, both sides remained calm and respectful.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Star Trek has omnipotence. Star Wars can't counter that. As the original contention was over technology levels, I tried to confine it to the reasonable; "Q turns the Death Star into a Christmas tree ornament" was the opposite of what I wanted to see.

Why it's a good thread/debate.

Originally posted by Robtard
The key difference between the threads, this one has objectivity and logic was/is applied.

Another difference, this one didn't degrade into a fanboy insult exchange, both sides remained calm and respectful.

That didn't happen @ SWVF, did it?

If you see some of the posts in here, seems it did. A Mod went as far as to post a 'thank you', to the people in here for remaining civil and calm.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dont squadrons of TIEs affect/increase that range for the empire..?

1 tiny defiant class cruiser is enough to beat a star destoyer. A few well placed quantum torpedos to the landing bay. Bye bye fighter support. Then after that the star destroyer is helpless.

A romulan war bird alone would desimate a SD its range is 8 times better and a plasma torpedo is greater then any turbo laser. And they cloak. Star was has better ships capable of fight close fights. The long range battle goes to start trek everytime.

GO START TREK!!!! LOL

And while Star Trek has Q, all they have to do in Star Wars is get someone who can connect with the Living Force, which basically makes them a god. All they need is a bit of Bota Extract.

While they're busy looking/getting said extract, Q would have already winked them (or that stuff) out of existence, genius.

Very, very difficult to argue with that...

Would Q's powers be a guarantee in a SW universe governed by the force...?

'Cause a gimpy "No" answer is literally the only scenario that I could bring up with even the slightest bit of hope of seeing Jedi survival against a member of the continuum.

I was also about to say something like "Hey! But what if the SW guys attack when Q has stripped of his powers by the Continuum..?"
But the easy answer is "The other continuum members would probably take the same actions Q would = Buttf**king the SW universe."

Originally posted by zeel
1 tiny defiant class cruiser is enough to beat a star destoyer. A few well placed quantum torpedos to the landing bay. Bye bye fighter support. Then after that the star destroyer is helpless.

A romulan war bird alone would desimate a SD its range is 8 times better and a plasma torpedo is greater then any turbo laser. And they cloak. Star was has better ships capable of fight close fights. The long range battle goes to start trek everytime.

Good points.
(Although it wasnt much cop against that Borg cube in First Contact though, was it...?)
A blast from the Death Star would sort it out nicely, I believe.

(Unless the Star destoyer has launched it's TIEs prior to that, your ambush the 'TIES in their bays' plan seem reasonable. .)

I believe the Defiant has the range on the ties.

Where do you get the "8 times better" factoring re: the Romulan B.O.P from though?

1 tiny defiant class cruiser is enough to beat a star destoyer. A few well placed quantum torpedos to the landing bay. Bye bye fighter support. Then after that the star destroyer is helpless.

False. Even if that did happen, fighter support is irrelevant. A Star Destroyer is covered in guns that manage to hit far more maneuverable craft. The Defiant would get hammered. A lot.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Very, very difficult to argue with that...

Would Q's powers be a guarantee in a SW universe governed by the force...?

'Cause a gimpy "No" answer is literally the only scenario that I could bring up with even the slightest bit of hope of seeing Jedi survival against a member of the continuum.

I was also about to say something like "Hey! But what if the SW guys attack when Q has stripped of his powers by the Continuum..?"
But the easy answer is "The other continuum members would probably take the same actions Q would = Buttf**king the SW universe."

If these fights it's only fair to assume all powers work in either universe, or the fight takes place in an amalgam of both realms. Or it would be, 'does the Force work in the ST universe'; back and forth.

Why we shouldn't bring in Q or the other omnipotent races that exist in the ST universe, because when it comes to god-like powers, ST is full of it. Same goes for the Emperor and his EU "I can eat a black-hole as easily as I eat a man-boy's ass." *wrings hands together menacingly*

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
False. Even if that did happen, fighter support is irrelevant. A Star Destroyer is covered in guns that manage to hit far more maneuverable craft. The Defiant would get hammered. A lot.

While I agree that the SDs are heavily armed, like a ****ing super-dreadnought, they seem to miss a lot. One wonders if they have faulty automated targeting or if the Empire likes putting all the 'Simple Jacks' behind those guns.

Defiant class ships can take a beating though, their specifically designed for it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Very, very difficult to argue with that...

Would Q's powers be a guarantee in a SW universe governed by the force...?

'Cause a gimpy "No" answer is literally the only scenario that I could bring up with even the slightest bit of hope of seeing Jedi survival against a member of the continuum.

I was also about to say something like "Hey! But what if the SW guys attack when Q has stripped of his powers by the Continuum..?"
But the easy answer is "The other continuum members would probably take the same actions Q would = Buttf**king the SW universe."

I think one of the reasons the thread starter specified no ST higher entities is because its pointless once you bring the Q into it.

Something to take take into consideration about ST weapons

The energy output of a photon torpedo, according to the Technical Manuals is a maximum theoretical yield of 25 Isotons and a maximum rated yield of 18.5 Isotons. According to the TNG Technical Manual, photon torpedoes use 1.5kg of matter and 1.5kg of antimatter. The resulting energy output would be 2.70x1017Joules of energy (by the well-known formula E=mc2). This amount of energy release would be equivalent to a 64.4 megaton nuclear explosion.

Compared to a photon torpedo the quantum torpedo is up to 8 times as powerful and can deliver a blast in the 150-200 Isoton range wearas the photon torpedo usually maxes out around 25 Isotons.

hey utilize positron torpedoes: powerful, slow-moving projectiles able to inflict nearly twice as much damage as quantum torpedoes.

So a positron torpedo is potentially 16 times as powerful as a photon torpedo and a photon torpedo can deliver a payload equivalent to a 64.4 megaton nuclear weapon (that's 14.4 more than the highest yield weapon ever detonated on earth...known as the tsar bomba...below is a video of that detonation)

YouTube video

Here's some info on that for perspective.

The effects were spectacular. Despite the very substantial burst height of 4,000 m (13,000 ft) the vast fireball reached down to the Earth, and swelled upward to nearly the height of the release plane. The blast pressure below the burst point was 300 PSI, six times the peak pressure experienced at Hiroshima. The flash of light was so bright that it was visible at a distance of 1,000 kilometers, despite cloudy skies.

A shock wave in air was observed at Dickson settlement at 700 km; windowpanes were partially broken to distances of 900 km. All buildings in Severny (both wooden and brick), at a distance of 55 km, were completely destroyed. In districts hundreds of kilometers from ground zero, wooden houses were destroyed, and stone ones lost their roofs, windows and doors; and radio communications were interrupted for almost one hour. The atmospheric disturbance generated by the explosion orbited the earth three times. A gigantic mushroom cloud rose as high as 64 kilometers (210,000 ft).

Despite being exploded in the atmosphere, it generated substantial seismic signals. According to a bulletin of the U.S. Geological Survey it had seismic magnitude mb = 5.0 to 5.25. The blast wave was detected circling the world

The area of effectively complete destruction extended to 25 km, and ordinary houses would be subjected to severe damage out to 35 km. The destruction and damage of buildings occurred sporadically at much greater ranges than this due to the effects of atmospheric focusing, an unpredictable but unavoidable phenomenon with very large atmospheric explosions that is capable of generating localized regions of destructive blast pressure at great distances (even exceeding 1000 km).

So you're talking about a weapon (in the positron torpedo) that is effectively 20.6 times as powerful as the tsar bomba.