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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Did Dooku let Anakin win/was he holding back?


Did Dooku let Anakin win/was he holding back?
Started by: xPRIMEx

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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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Did Dooku let Anakin win/was he holding back?

As the title says. I’ve been seeing people say that Dooku was told by Palpatine to either hold back or let Anakin win in ROTS. Is this true? Does the novelization have more details on this?

Old Post May 16th, 2020 05:42 AM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

Dooku was told to kill Kenobi to test Anakin to see if he'd turn to the Darkside and that if things started to go wrong he'd help him. The endgame was for Dooku to be captured and arrested only to be released after Order 66.

Dooku also mentioned before the battle that the war was taking its toll on him.

So you decide.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 08:23 AM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
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In the novel, Dooku initially is holding back and the plan is for him to be “defeated” and captured. However, once the duel becomes one on one he realizes Anakin’s potential as a Sith he begins to suspect the truth and fights desperately for his survival.

Old Post May 16th, 2020 08:42 AM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

Yes Dooku does start to go into "kill" mode but goes back into "playful" mode.

We just went through this for gods sake.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 10:56 AM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
In the novel, Dooku initially is holding back and the plan is for him to be “defeated” and captured. However, once the duel becomes one on one he realizes Anakin’s potential as a Sith he begins to suspect the truth and fights desperately for his survival.
Thisthumb up

The fight in ROTS was initially meant to test Anakin to see if he was ready to be turned. This was a test that Dooku arrogantly thought he'd have no problem with. But after Anakin started using his rage and genuinely getting the better of Dooku., he [Dooku] was fighting for his life and was very much taking the fight seriously. He was straight up outmatched, as both novels note. Dooku's only "surprise" came at the very end of the battle when Sidious didn't interject before Anakin beheaded him. No indication whatsoever in either novel that Dooku was tired or holding back at the end.

I recommend not listening to anything juggernaut74 has to say here. His bias greatly outweighs his logic.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 11:15 AM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
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I speak the truth and I realize it hurts but not one thing I said was untrue.

You guys are the ones he should not listen to


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 01:24 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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Hmm I’d have to read the novel myself

Old Post May 16th, 2020 03:47 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

Yeah, definitely read the novels for yourself. You'll see that ares and myself are absolutely correct.

juggernaut74 just likes to spin things to fit into his own headcanon. Pay him no mind.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 05:22 PM
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juggernaut74
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Registered: Oct 2004
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What did I make up?


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 05:23 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
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To put it lightly, you're god awful at interpreting context, and you try to add your own little twist on the information that is provided so that it fits into this headcanon bubble you've created for yourself.

But like I said, when xPrime reads the novels for himself he'll get it. smile


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 05:27 PM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

You say that Dooku started to go for the kill which he did but you neglect to mention that Dooku got control of things again and started to slip back into his "playful" mode and that is when Sidious decided to intervene and goad Anakin into using his rage and fury. That confused Dooku to the point if he thought Sidious had lost his mind and that is when Anakin get the upperhand. Do you understand context?

It's pretty clear had Sidious not been there to aid Anakin into getting a rage boner he would have lost.

Oh and as I said earlier before the fight even started Dooku clearly stated the war was taking it's toll on him and he was ready to take it easy. So there's that.


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Last edited by juggernaut74 on May 16th, 2020 at 05:37 PM

Old Post May 16th, 2020 05:34 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I speak the truth


As a wise man once said:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Well you are still riding in the boat by yourself.

Goodluck with that.


sad

Old Post May 16th, 2020 06:27 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

Just read the duel from the novel. I think you both are right. If Sidious wasn’t there, Anakin wouldn’t have been able to beat Dooku. But Sidious got Anakin to tap into his rage. Once he did so, Dooku realized that he was fighting for his life. Anakin beat him fair and square once Sidious told him to use his rage.

Old Post May 16th, 2020 06:36 PM
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xPRIMEx
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But I don’t really agree with what juggernaut was saying about Dooku being confused when Sidious started to goad Anakin. It’s pretty clear that Dooku knew what was happening and knew that he was fighting for his life at that point.

Old Post May 16th, 2020 06:38 PM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
But I don’t really agree with what juggernaut was saying about Dooku being confused when Sidious started to goad Anakin. It’s pretty clear that Dooku knew what was happening and knew that he was fighting for his life at that point.
Read the last page of the fight. It says that:

"Dooku thought blankly, kill me?"

It says after:

"Dooku found himself in bewildered astonishment if Sidious had suddenly lost his mind"

So yes Dooku was confused.

Dooku didn't even know he was fighting for his life until it was too late he was unprepared for the treachery of Sidious. The novel makes it clear and the Visual Guides and Ultimate Star Wars Guides confirm this as well.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 07:56 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 



Dooku was just surprised that Sidious was ordering Anakin to kill him, as he was hoping that his master would help him. That doesn't mean Dooku was holding back before that when Anakin unleashed his fury. The novel implies the exact opposite ffs.

This is what I mean. You misinterpret the hell out of the context, twist it to try and fit into your little headcanon bubble, then try to sell it as fact. Pure cringe.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 08:14 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Read the last page of the fight. It says that:

"Dooku thought blankly, kill me?"

It says after:

"Dooku found himself in bewildered astonishment if Sidious had suddenly lost his mind"

So yes Dooku was confused.

Dooku didn't even know he was fighting for his life until it was too late he was unprepared for the treachery of Sidious. The novel makes it clear and the Visual Guides and Ultimate Star Wars Guides confirm this as well.

Right after that it says
“He felt a sickening presentment that he already knew the answer to that question. Treachery is the way of the sith”

Then Anakin unleashes his rage. So Dooku KNEW that his master had deceived him BEFORE Anakin uses his rage. Dooku was definitely not holding back at that point.

Old Post May 16th, 2020 08:59 PM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Right after that it says
“He felt a sickening presentment that he already knew the answer to that question. Treachery is the way of the sith”

Then Anakin unleashes his rage. So Dooku KNEW that his master had deceived him BEFORE Anakin uses his rage. Dooku was definitely not holding back at that point.
That means he figured it out after the fact. Happens in real life all the time.


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 10:01 PM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

This is taken from the Ultimate Star Wars Updated and it confirms Dooku realized too late:

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post May 16th, 2020 10:16 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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Yeah he still realized before Anakin used his rage. Which was too late because Anakin was then too powerful for him to defeat.

Old Post May 16th, 2020 10:55 PM
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