A mortal who was infused with the power of the Gods (Pandora's Box didn't just make him a giant. The narration confirms that), overcame Ares' mindgames, and took his place as a God. The only things that have killed Gods in GoW is another God-esque substance, which Dante is not, never was, and doubtfully ever will be. God Kratos can just set Dante on fire or make his head explode in a gruesome fashion in spite of his durability, which is usually dependant on his physical vitality.
I know, but you'll be surprised by how many people try to pass the likes of Kratos' adversaries off like that when it really applies more to what the likes of Ryu Hayabusa's faced. It really doesn't take a ten-page debate to realize that much.
He is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR stronger, Kratos with his strength overpowers gigantic legendary beasts like the Hydra with ease.
Ryu is faster, but Kratos has many options to deal with it, such as Zeus' Lightning, Poseidon's Rage, Medusa's Blast, or the Army of Hades in GOW1, or Atlas Quake, Typhon's Bane, Euryale's Blast, Barbarian Hammer(spirit summoning), or the Blade of Olympus.
Kratos is more durable, able to tank powerful attacks from a Cyclops, Minotaur, Hydra, or Kraken.
Kratos has more options at range, with Zeus' Lightning in GOW1, and Typhon's Bane in 2, and in 2, he has the Golden Fleece, which is an arm shield that reflects any ranged or melee attacks.
Kratos is also quite skilled, and a good tactician.
^Well, it's not like the things Mr. Dark Jaxx there said in between the top and bottom lines are lies, they were all things that transpired in Kratos' respective game series in one way or another (not that I think think the top and bottom points of his were "lies" either, seeing as how by fundamental standards, I agree with Dark-Jaxx's choice of the victor).
Your point. Even thought not as fast Ryu has faced off aginst people Stronger and killed them
Ryu has magic aswell.Art of the hurricane that will instantly shread Kratos to peices. Art of the Inuzama that will electrcute him and his fire techniues that will fry him. As well as his immortal spirit clones to kill kraros that he cant deal any damage to.
Ryu has better endurance aswell as stamina. He got sliced open by the Dark Dragon blade which oblitereats what it cuts instantly. He also feel from a few hundred stories and lived.
Um Ryu has long Ranged weapons as well. Explosive arrows. Emp arrows. C4arrows. Explosive kunais, shurikens, Legendary Shuriken. In the new game he gets his spirit essence arrows that has energy and wind elements that seems to obliterated opponents. Along with his Dragon Fire Ball that he can control and slam aginst his oppnnets incincerating them.*Think yamchas controllable spirit bomb* Along with inuzama, art of the inferno, spirit blades as in the new DS game
Ryu IS WAYYY MORE SKILLED. Master Martial Arts aswell as weapon skill. he would most likely be deadlier with kratos weapons than kratos himself.
Ryu is more skilled and elegant and with that He is way more brutal. Ryu has also faught more skilled Enemies simotaneously. Being brutal means nothing
Ryu takes this
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
Ryu moves faster and has near-superhuman levels of agility, but it's just not enough of it to best the abilities Kratos, who's strength and stamina are literally Godly, far beyond what Ryu's training can get him, and he's shown that his brutal nature, coupled with his raw strength, is all he needs to handle the weakest of his enemies. Besides, Kratos can be called slow as much as needed, he's still not some immobile boulder he's shown a few big jumps and flips.
Kratos can descend longer distances than Ryu has. Having performed a free-fall fro mthe back of a Griffin in the middle of a sky onto an island that was laying far far far below. Ryu's stamina isn't half that of Kratos', who can whitstand being squeezed between the fingers of the Titan Atlas.
Ryu can probably try to cast a Ninpo spell, but he'll either be reeled in by one of Kratos's chained blades, at which point Ryu would be dismembered by Kratos' bare hands, or Kratos' Golden Fleece, which has deflected even the most divine of magic, could just go to work. Ryu has not a prayer of surviving any of Kratos' divine magic powers, especially ones such as Poseidon's Rage or Army of Hades. Ryu's Ninpo is useless against the like of Kratos, who has the means to prevent and/or counter-act anytime one comes to be cast. And Kratos' magic requires no hand-signs, momentary concentration, or a secnod to spare, it's instant the moment he summons it.
The Blade of Olympus is a weapon by far and away more powerful than even the DDB, which can't do anything half as great as what the Blade of Olympus can be used to. If Kratos uses this, Ryu's done with, Kratos needs only stick it in the ground, and Ryu gets a one-way ticket to Tartarus. Kratos has shown no problems using his weapons to degrees against enemies five times the size of what Ryu often faces, not a way in hell does Ryu's ninja training come close to Kratos who was trained at first a Spartan and then by the Gods themselves.
I wouldn't say Ryu Hayabusa would count as the weakest thing Kratos would ever have to face, but he's definately farther from the toughest thing Kratos would have to do battle with.
Ryu's projectiles are useless, his Ninpo won't be able to be used, and his inferior stamina and physical prowess all boil down to his unsirprisingly brutal death. He's really not much compared to someone like Kratos or Dante.
Last edited by BloodRawEngine on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 04:22 PM
Speed is huge in a battle. You cant hurt what you cant touch. Topped wioth teleportation and is able to conjuction moves with teleportion. I dont see kratos doing much do him.
Obviously you have played some of the games. In multiple games you seem him leaping from great heights and especially in the DOA4 ending. Ryu is flippin gfrom building on top of aircraft dodging gaitling gun fire and missles in mid air. Destroying battle ships at the same time.
How is kratos going to real him in when Ryu puts range bewteen him. All of his ninpo is long to midrrange. That and the fact that his ninpo protects him mid pre in his ninpose. Art of the Inuzama summoning thunder and lightning from the heavens. if Kratos tossed his metal hooks towards Ryu he would get fried via electricution. It wouldnt break past the wind barrier from the Art of the Hurricane which would shread him to many peices. Also he is able to use his destructive spiritial energy via spirit blast and beam. Very destructive and i have seen nothing in the arsenal that Kratos can compare with.
Strictly opinion. If you played the game you would know. DDB was a blade when just by releasing its evil dark powers. It torn the planet apart wreaking havoc across the globe just from the release. You even see a taste of the power when the VE just simply tapped into its power. It turned beautiful land feild into a living hell instantly. So far the TDS true power hasn't been tapped in and Rivals and supposedly surpasses that. So I HIGHLY doubt the sword of Olympus is stronger than the DDB
Specially since it changes someone into the Devil Incarnate
Ryu would see Kratos as joke. He is slow and is not that very skilled. Spartans are only good as an army from battle tactics. They are not really all that amazing one on one.
How in the world is ryu projectiles useless. Kratos has been shot many times by arrows and doesnt have the speed to dodge them. Ryu on the other hand has dodge faster projectiles than what kratos can throw at him. Ryu Ninpo is far from uselesss as well. Anyone would be a instant kill and they protect him. Only one that isnt a instant kill is Art of the Spirit Clone which creates two immortal copies of Ryu which means this fight will quickly turn into a 3 on 1 fight.
Wow at you saying Ryu has inferior stamnina. He fought a legion of fiends, and their captains, rival clan ninjas that were highly skilled, the military, and demolished them in less than a week with very little rest if any at all.(NG takes place over a week spand) Kratos in his games has been seen many times to be strictin with fatigue. Like in the beginning of GOD of War II he was soo tired when he tried to fight Zues. He couldnt even lift up his weapons. Ryu has never shown falter or fatigued in his time spand. So inferior stamina is rubbish.
Only thing Kratos got for him is his brute strength. The Reason Dante tops Ryu is healing factor and time manip along with his crazy trans. Without time manip and his healin factor. The fight would be more Even between Ryu and Dante.
Kratos is the least between the three because all he has is uber strength. Thats it.
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
If speed was too much for Kratos to handle, he'd've lost to the likes of the Gorgons and the Gods a long time ago, he's got ENOUGH speed to spare. Kratos' primary weapons are far more versatile than alot of the weapons in Ryu's stock, and he uses them with the effectiveness and brutality that Ryu and his clan only dream of.
Ryu's Ninpo IS useless against Kratos. Even if he couldn't rell him in when Ryu's charging (Kratos's chains have ALOT of length, more than enough to catch a single ninja off guard at any terrain that matters in a fight), Kratos could just cast one of his spells before any of Ryu's even make it past the handsigns.
And the projectiles are just as useless since Kratos has the Golden Fleece, they've deflected just about everything that's come his way, and anything they haven't was just because the attack was from something too large, which Ryu and his weapons are not (even then, Kratos dodged plenty of things that come his way, arrows, axes, fireballs, all while still standing, and he's also used his chains like the Hookshot to dodge anything too big).
Kratos originally being a Spartan captain really has little to do with his current battle prowess. A typical Spartan soldier in one-on-one might not be "all that amazig", but Kratos, someone who takes on enemies five times his size as a generalization, is not a typical Spartan in terms of combat. His blades can actually be QUITE fast, and with them alone, Kratos can just slam them into the ground to create a massive shockwave. Ryu might see Kratos as joke, but if so, he'd realize too late realize that that "joke" had just decapitated him in the blink of an eye. Kratos is at least AS skilled with his weaponry as Ryu, but even that would be an understatement for Kratos (people can use the whole in-game combat depth to try and counter this claim, but it's completely irrelelvant).
On the subject of stamina, that's a terrible example you used, since Kratos, at the time, had just been crushed by the hand of the Colossus of Rhodes (it was also the ONLY time he was stricken with fatigue of any kind). It was impressive enough that he survived that long; Ryu would've died the moment he was under that hand. Kratos had fought against legions of soldiers, undead demons, mythical creatures, all the while besting environmental hazards and besting the traps of Pandora's Temple over three times the course of Ninja Gaiden's timespan (GoW1's storyline is about three weeks), and for three days of those several weeks, he was climbing atop the gargantuan walls leading to Pandora's temple, barehanded, and not once did it show him so much as stopping to wipe the non-existant sweat off his brow. The ONLY times where Kratos has shown just heavy breathing, is when he was right about to die.
Kratos's monstrous strength is just the icing on top of what his potential has gotten him to. Kratos has most clearly done the greatest feats of the three, and has shown that he's easily the most powerful overall. Ryu in any instance is by far the weakest of the trio. A match between him and Dante wouldn't be even, it would be two characters with similar attributes and statistics going head-to-head ("Dante vs. Ryu Hayabusa" = "Solid Snake vs. Sam Fisher" of the acton genre).
Last edited by BloodRawEngine on Mar 3rd, 2008 at 05:20 AM
The Gods in GOW are joke. They can die and none of them where that that fast. And the gorgons were no where as skilled or deadly as RYu
Um no. His attack Range with weapons are about a 5 yard Radius. And its takes about 2 seconds to perform his technique. Which most of them protect him while doing this technique which means Kratos is not going to be interupting. And Ryu can teleport and move way out of range for his Ninpo and spirit attacks. Art of the Inuzama, inferno, Giant fire ball, his spiritial attacks as shown inDOA4 can be performed well effective enought out of Kratos Range.
Um it only deflected basic projectiles. Ryu has spiritial power arrows and his enchanted Legendary windmill shuriken. including his powerful ninpo for his range attacks, So once again projectiles will not be lacking. Also his Dabi Blade has range as well with it s wind scare technique that he can perform out of Kratos range. Ryu has Kratos beat in all categories except strength
Thats a joke. Ryu would most likely decapitate Kratos in the blink of an eye. With his superior speed. Ryu would counter or dodge most of Kratos attacks. Kratos weapons are not versitiles. He is basically swing a whip with blades attached to them. Ryu is more versitile because he has basically mastered all types pf weapons as well ninjutsu and ninpo magic. Ryu is too skilled and fast for Kratos to handle. With out going all giant god mode. Even then. That makes Kratos a bigger target for his devestating ninpo.
No perfect example Ryu hasnt been shown to tire. While Kratos on the other hand has been shown to tire after a battle. And most likely RYu wouldnt have gotten in that sitution to begin with. Also Kratos for half the game was flying on Pegasus to travel. And stope multiple times to have sex. Kratos was seen resting multiple times and stoping his path way of destruction. Ryu on the other finished off boss and gets updated on whos head next to get sliced open. Saying Ryu stamina pales in comparison is utter BS especially when you have never seen him tire.
Only thing Kratos has over Dante or RYu is his brute strength. Bottom line.
Skill-Ryu
Speed- Ryu
Spiritual energy/energy-Ryu
Magic-ryu
Weapons-Ryu
Strength-Kratos
Range on all grounds-Ryu even though Kratos might edge out mid range
kratos gets shitted on in almost any category i can think of. Ill even give Kratos endurance. But a majority of the catergoes go to Ryu.
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
1. None who have both the raw might and versatility of Kratos, who is far stronger physically than anyone in any of the DOA or NG games, I assure you of that.
2. Art of the Hurricane wishes it could be as good or versatile as Typhon's Bane or Zeus' Lightning. Art of the Izuma is the retarded second cousin of Poseidon's Rage or Cronos' Rage. Spirit Clones? And Kratos can summon a squad of invincible Hades Legionarres and in 2 can summon wraiths. Go figure.
3. And Kratos gets crushed by 300-500 foot Collossus' and lives, and this is a Kratos who was already weakened to probably the weakest he has ever been(besides when he didn't have access to his Demi-God power). Hundred stories? Kratos did that while kicking Icarus' ass.
4. Explosive Arrows, EMP Arrows, C4 Arrows, Kunais, Shuriken, and Windmill Shuriken hardly even compare to a Thunderbolt or a blast from the Blade of Olympus. Obliterate opponents? Like a lightning bolt does?
5. Lol, based on what, sure, in H2H he is more skilled, but in weapons, Kratos has shown greater skill, lemme guess, he's more skilled because he's a ninja.
6. OMG I can't believe you said Ryu is more brutal than Kratos.
Kratos make Elfen Lied characters look like innocent children.
Kratos soloes trained armies, as in, he walks into a battlefield and lays down the smackdown, he doesn't fight a few enemies at once like Ryu.
A joke, you say. Why, because they look a little more human? THAT'S what the series played to, making the human-looking deities of Greek Mythology a little more personable by human standards. Don't even bother with that played out excuse of an excuse, because they're still more powerful than what Ryu's faced and/or become due to size alone and still thensome. Kratos has killed two, and with what means he used, he'd kill Ryu MUCH more easily. It's not the fact that they can be killed that makes them weak, it's the fact that Kratos kills them is what shows his true potential and power. Kratos, as the second God of War was already described as more powerful than Ares ever was. Ares, who, with a fraction of his power, reduecd an army of thousands upon thousands of men into a field of broken, burned, torn, overall mutilated bodies. I'll say it again, the only thing that's killed a God in the God of War games is that which also held the same kind of Godly powers. The only "Gods" Ryu's ever killed are no longer even in NG canon.
Kratos' chains go farther than ever in a few Chains of Olympus videos, grabbing the Basilisk atop a bridge gate from practically the other side of the bridge. His best spells cover practically that much and are instantly activated, during which times Kratos is often untouchable, much less vulnerable.
It deflected much more than basic projectiles. The Golden Fleece has blocked fireballs, waves of varying energies lethal and non-lethal, Gorgon rays, Zeus' thunderbolts, and thensome. Those go beyond basic material projectiles, and Ryu's ninpo lies somewhere in that overall list.
That's completey underrating Kratos' abilities to ignorant proportions. Kratos' reactions allow him to dodge thunderbolts and a charging Zeus (who dashed at speeds no slower). Yeah, Kratos swings chained blades, with the effectiveness to defeat the likes of every man, beast, mythical being, etc. that came his way, skewering/vinesecting/mutilating them while spinning them around like helicopter propellers. He also uses them as literal arm extentions for out-of-range objects, to scale walls and ceilings, to swing like Spiderman from anything the blades can latch onto, etc (or break the Basilisk's jaw like King Kong did to that V-Rex). That's versatility, much moreso than what even Ryu's main ninja arsenal. Kratos uses every single weapon he gets his hands on just as efficiently as Ryu does, only not as elegantly, due solely to the game's main approach at brutal combat, but elegance and finesse =/= superior, Kratos proves that. God Kratos, I don't want to bring up since it's just plain not fair in this debate; all God Kratos needs to do is make a quick gesture, and Ryu's head explodes while his corpse is set aflame.
Kratos has never ONCE was shown to tire after just ONE battle without something that would leave Ryu dead. It took a series of battles to Tartarus and back to do that (THAT'S a good example, better than what you gave, and even then, that's when Kratos was still at his most...expendable). Kratos was only on the back of the Pegasus for like a tenth of the game, all the while slicing apart clusters of harpies, jumping off of the Pagasus' back to lay waste to an armada of Griffins piloted by the legionnares of the Sisters of Fate. Anything where sex or rest was involved was only in the beginning of the game(s). Hell the second time, it was in the MIDDLE of a battle with the Colossus of Rhodes, who occasionally ambushed Kratos, for example, when it to crush Kratos under its foot (at which point Kratos tossed it on its ass). Put Ryu in that situation, he'll be lucky to see the foot coming, much less stop the attack in its tracks. It's not BS to say Kratos has more stamina when Kratos goes through twice what Ryu does (that's being lenient) and comes out of it unscathed. So seriously, you used a bad example because Ryu would be even luckier to so much as survive at least one of the Colossus' ambushes than Kratos was to survive being slammed by it's massive hand when it fell at a gaining momentum.
Skill-Ryu
Load o' crap. Kratos takes things twice the ferocity of most of Ryu's boss enemies and crushes them with whatever he sees as usable, be it his bare hands, a weapon, or body part. Ryu may have twice the finesse acrobatics of the Prince of Persia (quite posibly more than that), but Kratos has infintely more brutality, tenacity, and raw power. Ryu's pretty strict on the belief that it's his training that made him the "Super Ninja" that he is. I'm not in the position to prove him wrong, he's beyond any ordinary human, but Kratos is far from that, in terms of both biological heritage, and power. He can take anything Ryu had thrown at him only in a more grisly fashion.
Speed- Ryu
Concedable at the least. In terms of overall speed, most of Kratos' lies in attacks (with his blades), while Ryu's got nimble movements.
Spiritual energy/energy-Ryu
That's something that doesn't even apply to Kratos. No comment
Magic-ryu
EPIC LMATHAF***O. Hate to say it, but Ryu's ninpo doesn't have two sh!ts on Kratos' divine spells. Not because they're enhanced with the divinity of the Gods, but because not only are Kratos' magic powers faster to the attack, but as a whole his best ones cover more ground by basic standards, and leave him invulnerable for the duration. One casting of Poseidon's Rage, and Ryu's fried (literally). It has properties fairly similar to Ryu's Art of the Izuma, only on a clearly larger scale and thensome. That's just an example.
Weapons-Ryu
Numerically, but no further than that. Like I said earlier, Kratos' main weapons alone are five of Ryu's or Dante's weapons, and in terms of power, the Blade of Olympus is able to not only absorb power of any kind, but already currently contains Kratos' powers as the God of War.
Strength-Kratos
And against the likes of Ryu, it's all he'll need if Ryu gets in close (which Kratos can make happen on his own).
Range on all grounds-Ryu even though Kratos might edge out mid range
Not a thing goes to Ryu in range, esecially when Kratos' Blades of Chaos/Athena's Blades cover more ground than what any of Ryu's main weapons do (and, at their fastest, can extend from his hands almost instantly). That's not even counting the likes of Kratos' spells, or other weapons.
Even if more physical attributes go to Ryu as a generalization, that doesn't mean it'll instantly help him succeed, because none of it is really at THAT high a caliber. Higher than any normal human, yes, but not as high as those with more than just human blood.
Ryu, in the end, isn't really all THAT powerful. He's not as fast as Dante, nor as strong as Kratos, his projectiles are completely ineffective against either one (who not only have superior projectiles, but also means to defend against anyone elses', Ryu's included), and both have the ability to assume a more powerful form in battle, which would just be overkill against almost anyone but eachother. Ryu's beyond the likes of the Prince of Persia, and probably Heavenly Sword's Nariko, but in the world of Action Genre protagonists, that's about it. Kratos and Dante are nigh omnipotent at full power and are the only ones of anyone stated here who would put up a fight against one another.
Hell, even if by some chance that Kratos is at too much of a disadvantage, all he needs then is to "Let the Rage of the Gods/Titans drive [his] blades". Ryu has no power of the sort, much less a chance against it. Another little "category" in which ensures Kratos' victory. But like I said, it's just overkill against someone like Ryu. Speed is the only physical category where Ryu ISN'T beat when compared to Kratos, and it's FAR from enough. All things taken into acount, Ryu would be more of an annoyance for Kratos than an opponent.
Last edited by BloodRawEngine on Mar 15th, 2008 at 07:49 PM
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