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MGS4 Bosses/characters vs MGS1 bosses/characters
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Mairuzu
Old School Cool

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It would be a great battle, no doubt.

We actually haven't even seen Raiden take on bullets but he is very fast as well, when saving snake.. you didnt even see him coming it was just a flash


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2008 04:15 PM
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kamikz
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Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.


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Old Post Jun 20th, 2008 12:17 AM
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Zack Fair
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IMO no one can match Snake's will to finish the battle.

Ahem...Sorry I'm on a MGS high.


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Old Post Jun 20th, 2008 03:14 AM
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General_Iroh
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by kamikz
Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.

It's an option, I dunno why it wouldn't work, if it didn't it'd sure take awhile to regenerate.


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Old Post Jun 20th, 2008 05:24 AM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by kamikz
Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.


its possible it might grow back, just a longer recovery


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Old Post Jun 20th, 2008 05:05 PM
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darth fury
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MGS1: Gray Fox vs Raiden : MGS4
Grey Fox

Solid Snake vs Old Snake.
Solid Snake

Liquid Snake vs Liquid Ocelot. (Unarmed, since we don't see anything else from LO.)
Liquid Ocelot

Vulcan Raven vs Raging Raven.
Raging Raven

Ocelot vs Laughing Octopus.
Ocelot

Sniper Wolf vs Crying Wolf.
Sniper Wolf (same way I beat her snipering)

Psycho Mantis vs Screaming Mantis.
Psycho Mantis

Gray Fox vs Vamp. (One with Vamp as he normally is, and one when his nanomachines are suppressed.
Grey Fox both


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2008 12:25 AM
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Homo
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I personally think "immortal" Vamp would kick Gray Fox's ass. There is the fact that he's, as said, basically immortal, he can perfectly predict his opponent's moves and can thus dodge almost anything not coming from Raiden given his extreme level of speed, and there is of course the fact that he completely handed Solid his ass when years earlier the same Solid was capable of taking on Deepthroat himself.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2008 01:27 PM
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GenomeFrozener
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by HomoSuperior
I personally think "immortal" Vamp would kick Gray Fox's ass. There is the fact that he's, as said, basically immortal, he can perfectly predict his opponent's moves and can thus dodge almost anything not coming from Raiden given his extreme level of speed, and there is of course the fact that he completely handed Solid his ass when years earlier the same Solid was capable of taking on Deepthroat himself.


Until Vamp can see through Stealth camo, detect lighting fast movements that out due his own and survive decapitation, Vamp is gonna lose to Gray Fox. Raiden's suit is different from Gray Fox's.
EDIT: Gray Fox is smarter than Raiden, battlewise. And Raiden is stronger.


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Last edited by GenomeFrozener on Jun 22nd, 2008 at 04:01 AM

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2008 03:59 AM
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CosmicSurfer
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Homo's got a very good point here.

If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter. He bitched him if you've seen the cutscenes.

And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat. The very same Solidus who was enhanced with an exosuit of his own. And this was Raiden *without* all the enhancements he received in MGS 4.

By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.

And this goes to show how uber Vamp and Raiden is compared to well....EVERYBODY. Especially including Solidus. Who could take on Vamp when we've all seen what he's done to MGS 4 Raiden?

Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.

Last edited by CosmicSurfer on Jun 29th, 2008 at 02:19 AM

Old Post Jun 29th, 2008 02:06 AM
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General_Iroh
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Homo's got a very good point here.

If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter. He bitched him if you've seen the cutscenes.

And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat. The very same Solidus who was enhanced with an exosuit of his own. And this was Raiden *without* all the enhancements he received in MGS 4.

By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.

And this goes to show how uber Vamp and Raiden is compared to well....EVERYBODY. Especially including Solidus. Who could take on Vamp when we've all seen what he's done to MGS 4 Raiden?

Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.

So you're basing most everything on Solidus supposedly being superior? Guess what, Liquid was supposedly superior to Solid, and who won that affair? Solid. In fact he beat Liquid multiple times, who's to say he couldn't have taken on Solidus? Besides, if I remember correctly Solidus wasn't killed by Raiden, he jumped off a building and died shortly after the fall.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2008 08:18 AM
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CosmicSurfer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Menetnashté
So you're basing most everything on Solidus supposedly being superior? Guess what, Liquid was supposedly superior to Solid, and who won that affair? Solid. In fact he beat Liquid multiple times, who's to say he couldn't have taken on Solidus? Besides, if I remember correctly Solidus wasn't killed by Raiden, he jumped off a building and died shortly after the fall.


He didn't jump off. He unconsciously fell off after Raiden sliced his spine. And where did you get liquid being superior to solid? In MGS 2, it was established that Solidus was the superior of the two. He even said himself that he was a "different game than Liquid" to paraphrase.

Anyway, even if solid is the inferior clone, it's still a very bad showing for Greyfox.

Old Post Jun 29th, 2008 02:16 PM
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General_Iroh
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
He didn't jump off. He unconsciously fell off after Raiden sliced his spine. And where did you get liquid being superior to solid? In MGS 2, it was established that Solidus was the superior of the two. He even said himself that he was a "different game than Liquid" to paraphrase.

Anyway, even if solid is the inferior clone, it's still a very bad showing for Greyfox.

*sigh* it's old news that liquid was the superior one, it states it at the end of MGS1 I believe, where you hear Ocelot talking to Solidus. And how do you figure Solidus fell off unconsciously, he stopped himself from falling and then stared at Raiden before letting go and letting himself fall.
He almost fell because of Raiden but in the end he off'd himself. Saying Solid could take on Gray Fox and Raiden could beat Solidus, so since Solidus is theoretically stronger Snake, Raiden is better than Snake which means he can beat Gray Fox. Ok...that's some damn twisted logic. Besides Solid shooting at Solidus from a distance we haven't seen them fight, so you obviously can't know which is stronger. I could just as easily say that Solid could beat Raiden in MGS4 because he took out Vamp so much easier than Raiden did, with next to no injury. And just because one person can take on GF doesn't mean someone as strong as that person or stronger could. Kinda like rock, paper,scissors. Rock can take scissors and scissors can take paper, with your logic rock would beat paper, but in actuality paper can take rock. It's just certain advantages the individuals have.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2008 09:52 PM
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GenomeFrozener
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Homo's got a very good point here.


No.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter.


Before the fight could enter it's conclusion, Gray Fox's experimental exoskeleton went haywire from the feedback. Causing Fox to scream out in pain. So no.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat.


Anger can easily cause a man to loose his power and cloud their vision.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.


As much of a Raiden fanboy, I would love to believe this.
But no. I'd say Solidus' anger got the best of him.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.


That the dumbest shit I ever heard. laughing
You're giving Raiden and Vamp WAY too much credit.
If so, how the hell did Vamp get trapped in a CQC hold by Solid Snake?
EDIT: I glad there are MG fans like Menetnashté that use common sense.


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Last edited by GenomeFrozener on Jun 29th, 2008 at 11:24 PM

Old Post Jun 29th, 2008 11:20 PM
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CosmicSurfer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Menetnashté
*sigh* it's old news that liquid was the superior one, it states it at the end of MGS1 I believe, where you hear Ocelot talking to Solidus. And how do you figure Solidus fell off unconsciously, he stopped himself from falling and then stared at Raiden before letting go and letting himself fall.
He almost fell because of Raiden but in the end he off'd himself. Saying Solid could take on Gray Fox and Raiden could beat Solidus, so since Solidus is theoretically stronger Snake, Raiden is better than Snake which means he can beat Gray Fox. Ok...that's some damn twisted logic. Besides Solid shooting at Solidus from a distance we haven't seen them fight, so you obviously can't know which is stronger. I could just as easily say that Solid could beat Raiden in MGS4 because he took out Vamp so much easier than Raiden did, with next to no injury. And just because one person can take on GF doesn't mean someone as strong as that person or stronger could. Kinda like rock, paper,scissors. Rock can take scissors and scissors can take paper, with your logic rock would beat paper, but in actuality paper can take rock. It's just certain advantages the individuals have.


Relax.

What twisted logic? There's nothing totally stupid from what I've said. How am I way off base here? Please show me proof that Liquid is superior to both Solid and Solidus. maybe I'm not totally right, I have no problem with that. But let's calm down here alright?

Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 04:51 AM
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GenomeFrozener
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Please show me proof that Liquid is superior to both Solid and Solidus.


There really is none. Solidus was the most perfect balance.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
I have no problem with that. But let's calm down here alright?


Yeah, lets go out and drink ReGain and eat some Hide-Chan Noodles.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 06:03 AM
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General_Iroh
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Relax.

What twisted logic? There's nothing totally stupid from what I've said. How am I way off base here? Please show me proof that Liquid is superior to both Solid and Solidus. maybe I'm not totally right, I have no problem with that. But let's calm down here alright?

laughing out loud I'm not angry, I just find your logic for Raiden's victory so odd. And read over my post again, I never said Liquid was stronger than Solidus, just that they said he was stronger than solid which you can find here.


And your logic of how Raiden would win is pretty odd. I see where you're coming from but you're relying upon to many assumptions.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 08:23 AM
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CosmicSurfer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Menetnashté
laughing out loud I'm not angry, I just find your logic for Raiden's victory so odd. And read over my post again, I never said Liquid was stronger than Solidus, just that they said he was stronger than solid which you can find here.


And your logic of how Raiden would win is pretty odd. I see where you're coming from but you're relying upon to many assumptions.


Sorry Menetnashté, I meant ThoraxeRMG should relax, he overreacted. I didn't mean it to you. I made a mistake quoting the wrong post.

Well, you proved me wrong about liquid. No big deal then.

Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 04:28 PM
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CosmicSurfer
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And Old Snake used CQC on Vamp after he immobilized him by gunning him down before his nanomachines revived him.

How could Liquid lose to Solid when he's the superior clone. Was it because of his inferiority complex?

Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 04:30 PM
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GenomeFrozener
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
And Old Snake used CQC on Vamp after he immobilized him by gunning him down before his nanomachines revived him.


Solid Snake caught him in the hold after he stood up.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
How could Liquid lose to Solid when he's the superior clone. Was it because of his inferiority complex?


Anger clouding his vision of thought.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 09:15 PM
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kamikz
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What anger exactly? Can you specify? Cause If I remember right, he was quite cool, and still had hope that he would find what he needed inside Raiden's body.


I'm not sure, but wouldn't Raiden be a little pissed of himself, recently having found out his girlfriend was a spy from the Patriots told to be with him, Snake has disappeared into the sea, the Patriots have played him all this time and basically made a fool out of him (as well as turning his whole life upside down) and Solidus telling him he was the one who killed his parents.


And guys, the quote saying Solidus is the superior clone isn't combat related. It's because he was completely identical to Big Boss. A clone is supposed to be exactly like the person it was made from, Solid and Liquid were different, Solidus was not. Thus, he was the perfect clone.
As much is stated in MGS4, nothing suggest he was a superior combatant, without the suit at least. Him saying he's a whole different game from Liquid doesn't make it so.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2008 10:17 PM
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