I never said it was, Gears never said it was, Gears fans haven't (To my knowledge) said it was.
What's your point? I'll tell you mine:
Halo and Gears are not deep games, they don't have deep, intricate stories.
You got pissed because you're a Halo-ite, failing to realise that I wasn't so much defending Gears as I was merely proving that Halo is no better in that sense.
That's typical fanboy though, you can't defend your point, so you attack the other. I call it the Republicaniser.
Gears and Halo both have really simple stories, that's all there is to it.
Whether or not you found the characters and events WITHIN those simple stories as meaningful or emotional is another matter. That does not mean it's complex or intricate.
Gears and Halo are not complicated premises, they're very, very simple.
People saying Halo's storyline is better are being silly. They're BOTH generic, they're BOTH simple, they're both pretty similar in that respect. What people are confusing is how much emotional investment they have, with how basically intricate (Or not) a story is.
You being emotionally involved in Halo does not mean the story isn't simple. The same can be said for anyone emotionally involved in Gears. They're both very uncomplicated stories.
So your telling me;
an alien race led by a false sense of religious priority that systemically wipes out other races and eventually encounters human kind and proceeds to destroy their colonies. Only intern to have the humans rebel by kidnapping human children that can be genetically and cybernetic altered to be used as a weapon against the invading Covenant for several years until the destruction of the final colony of Reach which leads to a lone ship escaping the destruction carrying the last known(there are a lot more) Spartan 2 program member, then crashing on a ring world that not only is a weapon to wipe out all life in the universe, but is in-fact a weapon that is meant to starve the parasitic life from another galaxy which is the biggest threat of all.
The hero then in turn destroys the ring after numerous betrayals by believed friends and allies, escapes back to earth just before another massive assault by one of the corrupt religious leaders, holds the line until the enemy retreats, takes the fight to a second weapon world where he assassinates one of the hierarchies. While at the same time someone on the opposing side of the battle hunts down a Hieratic that is believed to be spurting lies (which later are relieved to be true and were in-fact brought forth by the one who betrayed you in the first installment of the series.) Later to have the religious warrior betrayed by his own side after he uncovers the lies him and his people have been following under the pretense of, the betrayal not only results in a "nation" wide schism, but also the outcast(and believed death) of the former "Holy warrior" where during which he also encounters the Hero being held captive by the parasite hive mind, who then sends them each to a.) Allow the Hero to live up to his title by hunting down the last of the religious government leaders, which results in the death of one of them as well as the abandonment of the Hero's friend and adviser. b.) Send the "Holy Warrior" after revenge and justice as he slashes through the particular species (which took his owns long held spot in the ranking order) which results in him stopping the firing sequence of the second ring world and activating a beacon that leads to the only "remote controller" for all six reaming weapons, while the Hero returns to Earth defending it form a second attack.
While on earth the Hero discovers the armada is the largest the enemies ever assembled, and teams up with the "holy warrior" who informs him the "remote controller" is in-fact hidden within Earths crust and is the targeted area for the majority of the fleet. Before the area can be assaulted the militarise last base must be evacuated which leads to a very large human mobilization towards the enemies territory in which the "remote controller" turns out to be a portal which is used by the last reaming religious leader. The two heroes pursue but first must defend Earth from the parasite which has escaped containment and has found its way to Earth, the encounter leaves the Hero with the knowledge that his good friend and adviser is being tortured and used by the parasites hive mind, which sends a small grouping of both groups into the beyond. This venture finds the both of them and their armies engaged in the farthest reaches of the universe fighting on the one device that can activate all of the rings as well as create more. After the "Holy Warrior" gets his revenge against the deranged religious leader(destabilising that faction)he Hero then decides to activate the ring to destroy both the weapon and the parasite but first must find his friend in the ruined "Holy City" of the enemy which has been taken over by the parasite. The Hero then finds his friend as well as the "key" she had kept of the original ring which could be used to activate its replacement, the three of them along with a military Sargent storm the control room, which leads to the death of the Sargent by the traitor from the first one as well as the activation of the ring which destroys the device that could control them all and mass produce them as well. Post explosion you see the "Holly Warrior" return safely, as will as the presumed death of the Hero who in-fact does survive and is floating in space ready to save another day.....
...this is "generic" and simple "story" telling? especially compared too....
A story where another Hero is broken out of jail by an old friend, is remarkably reinstated into the military after being a traitor with no question, joins up with a group who is out to nuke a race of mutants that live bellow, has two of the members die gruesome deaths who are replaced by an ******* and a football player, then go to some hobos to find a car which has a mounted flashlight as a weapon which drives them to some mining facility, which in order to get to the depths they ride mine carts(ala Donkey Kong style.) While down there they set off a bomb which doesn't know what to hit, sending the squad to the Hero's dads house who, for some reason contains a layout of the Locus strong hold, which then sends them to a train station that for some reason already has the bombs waiting there. After taking out the General they then detonate the bombs underground which doesn't look like it hurts the enemy at all.
Fast forward a few months where the enemy has doubled its size somehow and are sinking cities, the best friend apparently has a wife that's missing, and the humans need to mobilize a massive force(sound familiar), which leads them to the mountains and eventually the death of a giant worm. And then for some reason takes them to an abandon lab which features hybrids(the history of which is not explored) and eventually puts them underground where the "best friend" shoots the wife we didn't know he had, and then precedes with the group to assault the castle that is also under siege by a schism of the enemy(once again, sound familiar). Finally the Hero sinks the city he was trying to protect before the game ends somewhat abruptly....
Even though Halo is a trilogy, the first two installments alone have more plot than the Gears series as it stands. That's not a matter of opinion That's a fact.
__________________
"The wait is over."
Last edited by Nactous on Dec 5th, 2008 at 04:20 PM
You see, what you did there was sit and type out a massive, elaborate re-telling of Halo's story in your own words, while casually typing out your own personal interpretation of Gears.
If I sat here for an hour, I could type an interpretation of Gears' story that makes it look like War and Peace, but I wouldn't, because that would only be a personal and elongated interpretation.
The bottom line and hardcore fact is this:
Halo is about a hero triumphing over a massive alien threat.
Gears is about heroes triumphing over massive alien threats.
There really isn't a great amount of detail in either of the two franchises, you see, and your rabid, almost hysterical fanboying will never, ever change that.
Story TELLING can be as intricate as you like, YOU just proved that. Do you not see? You just intricately explained Halo's story, but it doesn't change the fact that Halo's story is essentially still your generic, bog-standard hero Vs almost insurmountable evil, but wins, story. Also, why do you keep saying "Sound familiar?", PRECISELY my point.
They are both similar in so many ways, because they're basically your generic hero story. You can't sit there slyly saying Gears is copying, but then say Halo is an intricately woven tale of heroism. They're both generic and both uncomplicated.
It won't change, no matter how often you squeeze your eyes shut and pray. Now...you've got to wake up, son! You have chores to do!
Say there is one thing that always bugs me about calling the Locust aliens...They come from within Earth? Doesn't that mean they are more earthlings than us? Dunno if anyone catches my drift.
That's actually one of Gears' elements that was genuinely intriguing, unlike Halo.
The Locust seemed to be Sera's original inhabitants, and it has been theorised that they fight to keep their own imulsion from being depleted by the humans who have re-located there, because it's not based on Earth.
If that's true, it adds a whole new dimension to the story, one that Halo doesn't actually have, because that actually makes you question beyond good and evil, and into right or wrong. Though, I'm not entirely sure if that's the canon.
Oh please, Im a fan yes, fan boy no. More than I can say about you though. Bottom line, Halo has more plot thus far, that's unarguable. Emotion aside as well as your own sense of "generic" and unexciting, there's just more going on there. Period.
No, you very much are a fanboy. Me? I'm not DEFENDING Gears, I'm simply saying that Halo isn't any better in terms of plot complexity, that's all. I know that's a concept that you wrestle with like you're trying to catch a greased bar of soap, but it's true.
Who care's about AMOUNT of plot? We're not talking about AMOUNT of plot, we're talking about overall complexity of the stories.
They are very much uncomplicated stories, there isn't much to either of them, unless the Sera theory is true, in which case that adds a lot more to the general themes of Gears than it would have had otherwise, but I'll not make assumptions.
Point is, focus. We're not discussing quantity of plot, we're discussing complexity or intricacy. NEITHER are especially, so stop elevating one above the other.
If someone said "Gears is way deeper and more complex than Halo!", I'd say "No it's not, what are you talking about?". Also, where did I say "I don't like either story."? I don't play Gears for the story, I wouldn't play Halo for the story, because neither are that great. So, Einstein, what it comes down to is...? Go on! Bring it home! Oh you can't, I'll do it, then;
PERSONAL preference as to which game is more enjoyable to PLAY, irrespective of story.
Do ya see mah point? Do ya? Do ya see it? Finally? Thought not. I guess I'll have to lay that out too:
It's stupid to argue Halo's story Vs Gears', from an OBJECTIVE stance, because BOTH are very, very simple. It makes more sense to just explain why you found one game to be better than they other. If you say "Because Halo's story meant more to me.", then fine, but that's personal extraction, not OBJECTIVE story complexity.
Why would it, Nac? Why would amount of plot determine complexity?
The Lord of the Rings is a massive story, it's not the most complicated thing in the world. However, why do people enjoy them? Because regardless of complexity or not, they enjoy the basic premise. The very basic premise which is: Good vs Evil.
That's my point. It doesn't matter how it's told, what matters is what's being told. You can complicate a simple story premise, but it's still a simple story.
People are generally stupid, though. They want things they can "get", without feeling dumb. Hence Coldplay, Halo (In my opinion), Harry Potter, Twilight etc.
Either way, if you're aware that Halo's story isn't actually complicated or objectively deep, or overly intelligent...and we can agree that neither is Gears', then what has been your issue?
See, when you stop swigging the Fan-Fizz, everything is much clearer.
No, I still feel its deeper due to the back story, but I am thinking more about the complexity issue more. Too complex and you cant follow, not enough and its a bore. You remember how all of this started right?
It's not deeper in the sense of complexity, they're essentially the same premise. You are claiming it's deeper because of how much plot there is, right? It doesn't matter, because what goes ON in that plot does not amount to anything more than a generic hero story, that YOU have emotional attachment to.
Your emotional attachment does not make it complex or more intricate than Gears.
If you mean "I think it's deeper." because you personally got more out of what was there, then fine.
Halo's story, OBJECTIVELY, is NOT complicated or intricate. That's...fact. It's just not. You are incorrectly connecting amount and length with complexity.
X-Men had three movies, Fight Club had one. Fight Club is actually way more intricate than X-Men, it doesn't matter that there's more of X-Men.
To further the example, Fight Club had ONE book, whereas X-Men has been going for multiple decades. It's still not a more complicated premise than Fight Club (Not to suggest Fight Club is super advanced or anything, just as examples).
No, its deeper because it has underlying tones. Besides whos to say YOU should be the one saying "I don't think its deep." Complexity is a matter of opinion.
What underying tones? I know Halo's story, there are no "underlying" tones that make it complex or intricate. Even reading your OWN version, there are no underlying themes. Well, there are no themes that move it away from remaining a generic hero story.
Complexity isn't a matter of opinion, really. You can't choose how intricate something is. If there's a really gigantic maze with a million twists and turns, and one that really isn't that hard to traverse, you can't sit there and choose which one is more complex.
I think you are confusing underlying themes with what YOU saw in the story PERSONALLY, and you're wrong to do so. You did it a while ago with Halo's ad campaign. That isn't an intricate or deep quote, but you claimed it was because you decided to over-interpret it, like you're doing with Halo's generic story.
If the Sera story is true, then THAT is an underlying theme, because it isn't subjective. That theme is there, fact. The things you claim are "Underlying themes" in Halo, are really just you interpreting very simple things.
Look at the way you described the end:
"Post explosion you see the 'Holly Warrior' return safely, as will as the presumed death of the Hero who in-fact does survive and is floating in space ready to save another day.....".
You honestly do not get any more of a generic story than that. It doesn't matter what happened before, because it still came to a crushingly mediocre (Subjective) and GENERIC (Objective) end. Generic, by definition, is the direct opposite of the word "Specific". Halo's story is not specific, there are many, many films and games, books and comics that have similar premises.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 5th, 2008 02:43 PM
But wouldn't the amount of plot determined its complexity?
