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Mass Effect Universe vs All Final Fantasy universes except for 13 (explained)
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Cyner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Teleportation =/= able to go anywhere. Is there any proof that he can teleport across galaxies? And exactly how is he going to survive repeated blasts from shells 3 times the power of a nuclear weapon from hundreds of thousands of miles away?

And I searched up Trance Kuja...apparently he gets beaten by your party.

Much of your party uses swords/etc.

Your party would've had absolutely no chance against a thousand space ships.

And can he travel at FTL speeds?


In dbz they use punches and kicks that shatter mountains. that seems more powerful than an atomic bomb.

Just think of Final Fantasy as a fantasy based DBZ, cause that's what a lot of the characters are like.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 07:57 PM
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No, I'm afraid Trance Kuja actually is never defeated at any point in FF IX. To the contrary, he just gets fed up with dealing with the party and literally kills them with a single Ultima spell.

And yes, Scream, teleportation is faster than FTL, because there is nothing faster than instantly. Going double the speed of light it would still take years to reach the nearest star, teleporting there is instantaneous. I'm afraid science wins over your silly logic here.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 07:59 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cyner
In dbz they use punches and kicks that shatter mountains. that seems more powerful than an atomic bomb.

Just think of Final Fantasy as a fantasy based DBZ, cause that's what a lot of the characters are like.


...

that isn't really an argument.

So what if DBZ characters >>>>>>>> atomic bombs? What are you trying to say? Final Fantasy characters are nowhere near DBZ characters in strength, so this doesn't prove anything.

FF characters can't travel at FTL, so they can't actually strike back at a galactic force.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:01 PM
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What are you trying to set up here, HWKA? Are you saying this fight is just the fleet jumping in, shooting a couple times, then jumping away like a bunch of whipped dogs? That's not a victory, it's a forfeit. If this is an actual battle the fleet would set up shop, where it'd be easy pickings for the demigods of the FF verses. And if you're still convinced that FF loses, we'll just let Exdeath w/Void in on this, all he'd have to do is think and the entirety of the Mass Effect fleet would be erased from existence.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:04 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
What are you trying to set up here, HWKA? Are you saying this fight is just the fleet jumping in, shooting a couple times, then jumping away like a bunch of whipped dogs? That's not a victory, it's a forfeit. If this is an actual battle the fleet would set up shop, where it'd be easy pickings for the demigods of the FF verses. And if you're still convinced that FF loses, we'll just let Exdeath w/Void in on this, all he'd have to do is think and the entirety of the Mass Effect fleet would be erased from existence.


A war isn't simply "who's more powerful!!!!" (which, BTW, would still go to Mass Effect). There's stuff such as tactics, strategy, logistics, etc.

Logistically, FF universe can't possibly invade the Mass Effect universe because they don't have FTL capabilities. Therefore, they'll always be on the defensive.

Mass Effect universe advances technologically. The FF universe doesn't. Think about how far the Allies/Axis powers advance in just a few short years. Mass Effect will be like that: their technology would have advanced by quite a bit after a few years of war.

We're talking about space age tech vs medieval age tech + some magic

FF rarely advances, in fact sometimes it regresses.

And what powers does the Void have again?


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:09 PM
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quote:
And yes, Scream, teleportation is faster than FTL, because there is nothing faster than instantly. Going double the speed of light it would still take years to reach the nearest star, teleporting there is instantaneous. I'm afraid science wins over your silly logic here.
Nah. Speed = distance/time.

Light covers more distance in less time than any FF character teleporting. Teleporting isn't instant, either. It takes the time the character uses to innitiate the teleport. Are you seriously going to debate science with me? For one, the closest things we have for scientific explanations of teleportation do not allow for FTL travel, unless you're Ganon and fold through entire dimensions.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:12 PM
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Cyner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...

that isn't really an argument.

So what if DBZ characters >>>>>>>> atomic bombs? What are you trying to say? Final Fantasy characters are nowhere near DBZ characters in strength, so this doesn't prove anything.


No it's not an argument, it's a comparison. You said that a FF boss was defeated by a party with that uses swords, swords which you surmise aren't as powerful as the weapons used on the ships of Mass Effect. Which may not true according to canon.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:14 PM
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A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.

@Scream, you're embarassing yourself. There is no shorter travel time than 0, even FTL travel requires more than this. Instant transportation is always faster than moving really fast.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:15 PM
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quote:
And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon
No-limit fallacy.
quote:
When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.
Lost to a party of FF characters immensely weaker than himself.
quote:
Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact.
Not unless you back it up with evidenc,e which you're not. Also, In this case, quantity can be >>> quality, the ships can be in multiple places at once, Kuja cannot. He's one, they're many.

quote:
When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.
Lol, how about glassing them all simultaneously? Just sayin'.

quote:
@Scream, you're embarassing yourself. There is no shorter travel time than 0, even FTL travel requires more than this. Instant transportation is always faster than moving really fast.
No, you're embarrassing yourself with your incredible lack of knowledge on the subject oyu're attempting to debate. There's not such thing as "0" in terms of time. Teleportation takes time, and light will always get there faster, unless you fold through dimensions, which FF characters do not do.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:19 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.

@Scream, you're embarassing yourself. There is no shorter travel time than 0, even FTL travel requires more than this. Instant transportation is always faster than moving really fast.


1. Please provide feats that prove that Kuja can wipe out a fleet of spaceships.

2. If the Void is infinitely powerful, then it isn't allowed, as specified in the opening post.

3. How far of a range can Kefka influence?

4. Teleporation is NOT instantaneous. There isn't any proof of this.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:20 PM
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quote:
4. Teleporation is NOT instantaneous. There isn't any proof of this.

^Truf.

Teleportation is not simply appearing somewhere else, you are travelling. It is not instant. 'The fastest' way to teleport is to fold through dimensions, and FF characters cannot do this. Most teleportation, including that used by FF characters, has a limmited range.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:23 PM
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Cyner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.



1. War is definitely about sucker punching the enemy. The revolutionary war, Russia's tactics in WW2, and the tactics of terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq prove that guerrilla warfare is very effective.

2. That's not really how the void worked in the game. The void was a place, one that was seemingly empty, without time, gravity, or much of anything. However it was a place and within the void was the "Mirage Town" with time frozen in it. Remember that your party actually had to enter the "void" to confront ExDeath.

ExDeath had the power to suck anything into the Void from seemingly infinite distance and it increased his own power by untold amounts. However the Void does not erase things from existence. It just puts them in the Void. Remember that when you defeat ExDeath all the seemingly "erased" towns and places return.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 08:27 PM
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So to sum it up:

1. First of all, FF armies are complete non factors, unless if you think that guys with swords can take space age soldiers with guns.

2. Mass Effect universe has FAR greater numbers.

3. Mass Effect universe has FAR greater economic power, with factories and stuff spread across the GALAXY.

4. Mass Effect universe has ships that launch shells 3 times the power of nuclear bombs with a range of hundreds of thousands of kilometers. Wait...actually, according to the codex, their guns actually have unlimited maxinum range in space and will go on indefinately until it hits a big enough object, so really, considering the large size of whatever planets that the FF forces live on, the Mass Effect ships could simply sit star systems away and hit it from a range in which the FF characters can do NOTHING to stop.

5. Final Fantasy has nothing to counter this, except for a few of the bosses...

5. ...many of which are beaten by the protagonist and his/her party, which consists of a few guys with swords/shields/some magic...

6. But all of this is irrelevant, because FF dudes don't have FTL tech, meaning that they have NO hope of actually invading Mass Effect universe. BTW, there is NO proof that teleportation = FTL.

7. Therefore, Mass Effect universe could simply wait for their tech to grow and then attack.

8. Or they simply glass the FF worlds into shreds from hundreds of thousands of miles away.


Either way, FF universe DIES horribly.


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Last edited by Hewhoknowsall on Oct 26th, 2009 at 09:44 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 09:40 PM
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Cyner, the Void isn't a place. You're thinking of the Interdimensional rift where the Void was hidden.

And why make a thread where the best isn't allowed? What you're trying to do is akin to making a Pee Wee Herman vs Mike Tyson debate but saying Tyson has to be drunk and chained to the floor. That doesn't mean Pee Wee is a better fighter, it means he's cheating, the only difference here is that someone forgot to chain up Mike's arms, Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, CoD, Etc.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 10:09 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cyner, the Void isn't a place. You're thinking of the Interdimensional rift where the Void was hidden.

And why make a thread where the best isn't allowed? What you're trying to do is akin to making a Pee Wee Herman vs Mike Tyson debate but saying Tyson has to be drunk and chained to the floor. That doesn't mean Pee Wee is a better fighter, it means he's cheating, the only difference here is that someone forgot to chain up Mike's arms, Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, CoD, Etc.


All that I've excluded so far are omnipotents/near omnipotents, which is clearly said in the OP and is a perfectly valid thing to do.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 10:28 PM
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If you're going to limit the FF side you should restrict the ME side for balance. Since 99% of FF beings are grounded why not make this a land battle with ME troops vs FF troops?


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 10:50 PM
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Lol.

Teleportation takes time to activate the teleportation, FTL is faster than Sephiroth's thought, and it has a range, show me Sephiroth teleporting to another planet, which he clearly cannot do, he has to ride planet's like ships to travel the vastness of space. Not that it matters, ships need a Mass Relay to travel FTL.

But yeah, a Dreadnought bombardment wins this fight, like I said, each slug fired by one strikes with the kinetic energy of 38 kilotons of TNT, thrice that of the Hiroshima bomb, and it can be used nigh-infinitely. Keep in mind this is only an 800 meter Mass Accelerator, larger guns in fact exist, hell, a single one of Sovereign's tentacle guns is more powerful if I recall right.

There are 80 Dreadnoughts in the Citadel forces, not counting the almost limitless amount of Reapers or the Geth, along with non-Citadel races and other ships and forces.

Thing is, FF character's durabilities cannot withstand an assault like that, Sephiroth and Kefka will die, and Kuja will die soon.

Now if ExDeath with the Void, Time Compressed Ultimecia, or Chaos were in this fight, they would solo.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 11:02 PM
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I wonder what kind of weapons Destiny Ascension has? Apparently it boasts almost as much firepower as the rest of the Asari fleet combined.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I wonder what kind of weapons Destiny Ascension has? Apparently it boasts almost as much firepower as the rest of the Asari fleet combined.
This is true.

Guess which Asari Dreadnought was completely annihilated by Sovereign? smile

Keep in mind that there is, according to Sovereign, an almost limitless amount of Reapers.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2009 11:09 PM
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quote:
1. First of all, FF armies are complete non factors, unless if you think that guys with swords can take space age soldiers with guns.


I disagree with this point. Appeal to novelty is a fallacy. In many cases, particularly in fiction, a sword in the right hands is just as effective as a futuristic weapon, particularly in terms of destructive power, swords often show more.

quote:
5. ...many of which are beaten by the protagonist and his/her party, which consists of a few guys with swords/shields/some magic...
You'd be amazed how far a little magic and old tech goes compared to new tech. But I do agree with the idea behind this. The FF bosses usually lose to opponents they really shouldn't lose to. FF parties are not the most impressive things in gaming, or even close to. But they are clearly more powerful than your typical tech soldier.

I don't think FF wins, but I don't think downplaying old tech is necessary.


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