There never has been any specifics on what actually happened. So we wont assume anything other than what was shown. Akuma pops up and SGSs the shit outta Bison. Can he do it to 3 Bisons? Sure, why not. It looks damn-easy enough.
We get the point, Juri is stronger than given credit for. But Akuma will still embarrass her, easily. There is no contest here. And of all Akuma's, you use SFIII? It's the match for the ages if you hate Juri.
Right. Always the case with $h!t you don't like, but hatahz gonna hate.
Are you takin time to actually read your own posts? Time dictates speed. If you remove time from a punch, the punch becomes nigh-instant, barin the instant needed to disappear and reappear in another place, which is miniscule. It's like dodgin a teleport lunge from Night Crawler.
I don't think you know what a Psycho Crusher looks like, pal.
Okay, I hope you feel really good about yurself now, cuz all those Google facts you slapped up their completely avoid the point being made. Which was, at high enough speeds, flashes of light will not even register to the human eye. The brightest thing in the universe, the beginning of a Quasar, can't be seen until after it has already occurred. The eyes will never be fast enough to witness a flash brighter than a billion galaxies. Which leads back to my point. Lightning is slow enough to see, its brightness helps, but it is not an applicable excuse. There a brighter things than lightning that occur too fast to even register.
I didn't think you did. Just tryin to put that out there before you try and argue me down about that, too.
Juri ran circles around Chun, you can see the streaks curve around her body. Juri may be runnin around Chun, but she never leaves the viewers line of sight. Which is my point.
Pure denial or not payin close attention is all that is that paragraph is sayin to me.
What? I've, in fact we, have been doin that this whole time. This never changes with you. But hatahz will continue to do, what is they do.
The extent of your own ignorance leads you to that conclusion. . .
__________________ "Step back loser! Make way for the winner!" -Anakaris-
Last edited by No End N Site on Mar 23rd, 2012 at 02:36 PM
Gender: Male Location: Maki
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@DSZ and No End
What, I'm not undestanding is, if we can all agree that Shin Vega VS Shin Gouki is virtually a toss up, why would their weaker levels not match up? If Shin Gouki and Vega are even, for the most part, why would removing just 1/4 of Shin Vega's power make Vega an EASY kill for NORMAL Gouki? Especially when it's already established that Gouki would need his Shin form to battle Shin Vega.
If Juri can keep up with 75% Vega, how is she an EASY kill for Gouki? I don't get it.
__________________ By Saikyo Kid
Saikyo Ryu, LEARN IT!
Last edited by Frisky Dingo on Mar 23rd, 2012 at 10:21 PM
huh who said anything about mach 200, or was thinking more along the lines of mach 3 to mach 10. and I was thinking of along the lines of her depending how fast she can dodge a sonic boom, and how fast she could dodge a point blank shot.
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Err, don't know how this affects debate, but eyes have something called dynamic range,wherein sensitivity is adjusted dependent on level of photons in the environment, becoming unresponsive to 100s or 1000s of photons in very bright environments, and reacting to less than a few dozen low energy photons in extreme pitch black environment after time for dynamic range adaptation.-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_d...ering#Human_eye
I've heard as little as a few 10s of relatively low energy photons or maybe less may be detectable at highest sensitivity state.
I did, since she was capable of reactin to Bison's sneak attack, which involved him teleportin, just his arm, to kill Juri. Bison then steps out of a worm whole.
Bison's teleport can be so broken that he can, in fact, teleport back into his own after image, before it leaves. All of this can be seen, even in game, like so. . .
He blinks back into his own after image so quickly that you don't even see the blink, however, when Gouken swings at'im, he appears intangible, clearly showin that for an undetectable instant, even in the game, Bison was actually not there. And then you see Bison come out of the purple image to continue the battle. This can be seen somewhere in between 0:11-0:12 of the vid. This ridiculous feat can be seen again, in another instance @ 0:53-0:53.
We know how Bison fights, he will spam teleports, so for a character to keep with'im, without actually havin a teleport of their own, is well above a mach 10, or even a mach 100. It's rather close to instantaneous, which means no time.
Your brain will 'react' to the presence of a single photon through prisms (slowin down, splittin, and "clonin" the minute photons). But the reaction/detection doesn't equate to sight. The brain will "subconsciously detect" a or a some photon(s). That's what I've learned.
What?! I know I never agreed to that shit! I said Akuma would have to go beyond his normal lvls to deal with Bison's more "eXtra" powers. That doesn't mean he has to go all out, he just has to use a lil more power than his normal form would allow. He has the showings necessary, in his normal state, to put the hurt on Bison, alone. Defeatin'im and dealin with all his psychic malarkey will just require a bit more power than he normal uses.
__________________ "Step back loser! Make way for the winner!" -Anakaris-
What is instant or instantaneous? What we perceive as instant can in truth(and virtually always is, as a matter of fact) be very far from instant. In case of SF4, "instant" means more or less 0.0166666666666667 seconds.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
Hmmmm. . .curious to know why you chose that number? Just to make sure. Cuz to be honest, I was way too lazy to actually try an measure an instant/Psycho warp in SFIV.
__________________ "Step back loser! Make way for the winner!" -Anakaris-
Now I'm not 100% sure if I'm right, but the game runs at 60 frames per second. Therefor 1/60 = 0.0166666666666667 is the time needed for any measurable change to occur in the game.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
Gender: Male Location: Maki
Affiliation: House Kreutz
Frame consideration is actually a rather excellent idea. However, it still raises a problem, since there is less than 1 active frame in Vega's teleport.
As shown here, there a NO start up frames OR active frames of animation for his teleport. It just happens, or happens in less than a single frame. There are 42 recovery frames, but that's just stopping it from being broken.
Vega can fire psychokinetic blasts that reduce cities to burning mushroom clouds. If that's just his basic psychic blasts, when applied to TK and hypnosis he should be able to wreck whole cities, like throwing sky scrappers and toppling buildings. Add in teleport spam and mach speed flight and that's FAR MORE than Gouki has ever dealt with.
The man's presence causes wild thunder storms and his psychic powers form GIANT clouds that fill the sky in the shape of a skull. His powers are very radical, and there is NO proof that just a "little Shin", is enough to deal with it.
__________________ By Saikyo Kid
Saikyo Ryu, LEARN IT!
Last edited by Frisky Dingo on Mar 25th, 2012 at 01:25 AM
That probably just means that the teleport action is contained within a single frame. If you took half a frame, Bison's upper body would be gone while his legs would still be there. At any rate, this is just really gameplay mechanics where a sonic boom travels at a pace of a brisk walk.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
Gender: Male Location: Maki
Affiliation: House Kreutz
If it was contained in a single frame, it would count as 1 frame. There is no frame.
And guile's sonic boom is a tool used for zoning, having it go the speed of a sonic boom would make it broken. Guile's also a good guy, he does not throw SBs with the intent to kill, especially since the attack is described as a cutting attack, at full power.
Vega's attack is a teleport, in game, and behaves as such. Even in game. I think the "gameplay" argument holds little weight here.
__________________ By Saikyo Kid
Saikyo Ryu, LEARN IT!
Last edited by Frisky Dingo on Mar 25th, 2012 at 03:51 AM
Dodging a teleport is normally more about anticipation then anything. They have to come out of the teleport to attack, and it boils down to dodging when they can attack. The vid you sent pretty much showed that, he vanished and she jumped right as he was coming out. So her really would still only be as much as it took to dodge the actual punch, not the teleport.
Also the whole turning invisible thing, doesn't prove she's faster then lightning, since there are things slower that we can't see as well. Along with the fact that it may just be artistic license in how the move looks. Same as how we can see characters going lightspeed in games and shows, yet have guys like spidey man being invisble at other times.. Without context of who exactly she's invisible too it doesn't mean much.
Now Juri may be as fast as you're saying, but I'm just saying that there should be better evidence. Especially since the ultra special is being done in gameplay.
Gender: Male Location: Maki
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How can juri anticipate vega, teleporting to her location with a flaming extended arm in hong kong, from Thailand?
And What are these slower things, that are human sized, we can't see? While they move, only in our field of sight? I'm in serious doubt about her depiction of speed being "artistic liscense" when you consider she is capable of going 1 on 1 with a version of vega, 3x more powerful than a lesser form that teleported so much, it took 5 fighters to actually catch him off guard.
Juri's vanishing act is a clear depiction of her speed, since she is actually that fast.
__________________ By Saikyo Kid
Saikyo Ryu, LEARN IT!
Last edited by Frisky Dingo on Mar 25th, 2012 at 04:04 AM
I wasn't talking about human sized, I was commenting on you saying it makes her faster then lightning since we can see it. Lightning is much larger then a human, just as there are smaller things then juri that we can't see when going slower. Follow me?
She had her eyes closed, it honestly seems like one of those mystical martial arts things. Like when they sense someone trying to kill them, plus her eye thing. May be wrong though, didn't play that, just saying dodging teleport doesn't automatically mean mach 8000 or anything
Well what's the other evidence of her speed, because an ultra special isn't a good argument since it's gameplay. I mean look at how slow they have the projectiles move.
Gender: Male Location: Maki
Affiliation: House Kreutz
I NEVER said because you can see lightning, anything moving so fast you can't see, is faster than Lightning. However, given the mechanics of this particular situation, Juri is faster than lightning, since she never goes off the screen and we still can't see her. If it is in your face, is the size of a human, and never leaves from in front of you eyes, and you still can't see it. It is faster than lightning and is actually a high-end physics issue.
But that wasn't the case since Vega was coming from Shadaloo base with the attack. And Juri has not shown the ability to sense others power from far way. This just means she sensed him the moment he got there, which was a very short amount of time. Dodging a Psycho Warp, even with figures posted above, would make Juri well above Mach 8000.
Your excuse makes it sound as though everything is slower in gameplay. This means Juri is even faster outside of it. The gameplay argument is also very poor since she has demonstrated she can cause this affect outside of gameplay. Fighting games can accurately portray character's powers.......most of the time, actually.
__________________ By Saikyo Kid
Saikyo Ryu, LEARN IT!
Last edited by Frisky Dingo on Mar 25th, 2012 at 04:31 AM
Of course there is a frame. There cannot not be a frame.
Isn't "zoning" a purely gameplay concept? Shouldn't a sonic boom move at the very least at the speed of sound? I think it's quite simple: all these greatly superhuman characters are controlled by mere human beings with limited reaction times. I mean, come on, next thing you'll tell me that they actually fight in a 2D plane.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
Last edited by ArtificialGlory on Mar 25th, 2012 at 03:19 PM
But there can be, very close, to a "no frame" teleport. The one frame needed is for him to reappear. It doesn't require a frame to disappear, especially since it can be used as a cancel. However, this 1 frame has him reappear as an after image and is actually part of the 42 frame recovery, which can be Karaed out of after the 1st frame, anyway. Thus, even for the 1 frame it takes for him to come back on the screen, it is intangible.
Also, you must've missed the part where he says Guile holds back? Guile does hold back. In the game manual, his SBs are stated to be able to "slice through any thing". Of course Guile isn't throwin SBs to cut Ryu and Blanka in half. Just like Akuma holds back and aint destroyin islands with every punch in the game.
I get the point you're trying to make, but not every thing in gameplay is inadmissible. Many things actually coincide with the character's personalities and actual story. Usin yur logic, Guile isn't capable of doin a Sonic Hurricane cuz he's only been shown to do the move, in gameplay.
This whole discussion will be laid to rest soon, anyway. I just went to Ask A Physicist. I got an answer, originally, but it wasn't a very helpful one. So I had to ask a follow up and I'm waitin on that now. Here's what went down. . .
__________________ "Step back loser! Make way for the winner!" -Anakaris-
Last edited by No End N Site on Mar 25th, 2012 at 05:39 PM
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Juri ran circles around Chun, you can see the streaks curve around her body. Juri may be runnin around Chun, but she never leaves the viewers line of sight. Which is my point.
Mar 23rd, 2012 02:27 PM
