Forgive me if i came across as offensive but i was simply stating that your comments indicate a lack of understanding about the character youre debating about. Thats not offensive, just stating a fact, if you found offence in that then apologies.
Using bios off of Marvel.com bios which are created and editable by any who register on the site is about as credible as writing a university essay and referencing wikipedia as a source.
As i showed you, Eternitys official and published handbook bio clearly states that he is the embodiment of time and the chronal axis-
Even your bio makes the distinction that he is the embodiment of the timeline.
It all clearly states that he was derivative of the Big Bang as well.
And you cant try and demean my point as opinion when clear as day and explicitly on panel (thereby holding greater credibility than all other sources) the Phoenix Force is called the Big Bang in sources as recent as the Avengers Vs X-men series-
Doesnt get much clearer than that. The Phoenix Force as we know it is the sentient Big Bang. After the multiverse was reset by the M'kraan crystal, the Phoenix Force was reborn anew as the Big Bang and its sentience eventually awakened to this new reality
TT manipulates the content of timelines. Jeans Phoenix power allowed her to play editor and to amputate timelines and regrow them as and when she desired. Its like micro vs macro.
As stated in the bios, time came into being following the big bang. It is a facet of reality. If Jean was to casually destroy the timeline as she did here:
Timelines begin with the Big Bang, they dont exist without reality. If the Phoenix Force destroyed the timeline it and TT were fighting in then what exactly would TT do?
It's as good as those Handbooks and goes pretty well with most poeple opinions, no offense, your theory is just exotic.
And His word and his appearance tell us that he is also everything that is was and will ever be, right?
In the first "BigBang" scan the word Big Bang is missing, Tony says a lot but the word, I can find it...
A statement from Reed is nice. Though call it what you want is kind of vague...
As for the third scan "A Flame from the furnace of the big bang is in my opinion not the same as being the big bang itself. On the contrary it sound like it was spawned by the Big Bang, like it was "made" "Created" by it and not like it IS the BigBang or whats more important in control of it. It's like a tool... that's how it sounds.
4th scan, so it was born from the BigBang, it's sentience awakened after it, so it isn't more then what it is, a sentient destructive force born through the big bang. It can't be the space, the time, the concept of Death, it's not more then a part of the whole thing. Actually your evidence showed me exactly the contrary thing.
If the PF would be the Creator of the Marvel U and not a tool used to create the MArvel U, it should be in complete control of the Marvel Omniverse and all other Abstracts wouldn't be needed.
I think the PF is like a spark, it's vital but and helps to get the fire burning but it isn't the wood or more then a spark. A part of a larger system not more. It's not the "boss" of eternity, death or Galactus nor are they a part of the PF, they just use it.
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First the Pf would have to destroy all timelines, time itself which means Eternity, right? She never did such a thing. And one Timeline won't be enough, Time and Eternity would have to be gone for the TT to be without work in the Marvel U.
Since the Pf exists within the Timeline and is a part of the Universe. TT already knows the battle, the outcome and how to change it He would travel to the beginning of Time, to the BigBang if you insist and stop it from happening, easy right? Since Phoenix gained sentience after the BigBang he could change the Timeline to not allow that to happen.
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False on both fronts. Trapper manipulates both time and space, so he was manipulating entire DCU on a palm of his hands. Trapper also doesn't needs a reality to exist, he is a sentient timeline who was born at the instant of creation. How about we argue about the real feats of PF? Like what if trapper splits it like shiar and Iron man did and sends all these miniscule parts in a different timeline. Could they return in time to not lose via BFR? The only way to beat a fully powered time trapper is to destroy time across the creation like parallax did and that's not something phoenix can do.
^ Well I see the Phoenix flaring as clearly as I see the universe.
But if you're saying both are simple symbolic visualizations in her hands, I can get with that. You're right that all Jean did was use telepathy to nudge Scott. You hardly need to manifest the actual universe in your hands to do so.
Its as good as the handbooks because it coincides with your opinion? Not good enough. Its a publicly editable info source like wikipedia. Not seen as reputable enough here for referencing. That would be officially published handbooks and whats stated and shown on panel.
Since the 1990's Eternity has been defined as the chronal axis. He embodies everything along the timeline however he is a sentient concept. He is not the physical substance of creation, thats where him and the PF differ.
Not really. Heres a clear mention-
Tony Stark in an effort to learn about the Phoenix Force uses particle accelerators to study the Big Bang.
Vague how? He states clear as day that Galactus was transformed by the energies or creation. And then says those can be referred to as either the Phoenix Force or the Big Bang, equating them. Thats an explicit reference.
The firebird is an avatar. Not the sum of the Phoenix Force but a manifestation of its sentience within reality.
of the Phoenix Force saying it was born with the first fire but more importantly that it is all that is, everything that lives is touched by it and it is the mother of the stars. Stars being the largest concentrations of Big Bang matter
Which also ties into Kubik stating the same thing, the power source behind the stars is the Phoenix Force
If the PF was just a standalone flame from the Big Bang it wouldnt be all that is as stated, the power source behind the stars and if it was to leave reality it wouldnt result in a void as verified by Death and the Watcher-
The PF isnt the creator of the Marvel Universe. If thats what you think im saying then no wonder you have an issue with my argument.
The PF was itself created, it is the sentient energies of all creation and it manifests at a universal level either as its Firebird avatar or through hosts to perpetuate evolution and the creation cycle. It plays a role as do the Abstracts however its feats are greater than the Abstracts and as Eternity admitted without the PF he would not exist.
The PF perpetuates the creation cycle so it is the spark and the snuff, however it is on numerous occasions by reputable characters called the Big Bang, this point is verified by cosmics who call it the power source behind the stars and that without it in reality there would be no energy and matter a void. What turns the void into reality? The Big Bang.
When characters like Jean and Rachel use their telepathy they regularly manifest a Phoenix energy signature of psionic energy, but as we all know telepathic energy does not burn physical matter, so the universe in her hand did just fine.
I am well aware of Phoenix halos flaring up from their own person when they use telepathy. Not inside or on top of other objects or people's heads when they use telepathy on them. And, yes, I recognize the symbolic visualization of a universe was just fine. Because a simple telepathic nudge of Scott's mind hardly requires manifesting an entire actual universe.
Time is a facet of the universe. If you destroy the universe then time ends in that dimension.
Phoenix as shown on panel and as verified by the handbook has casually destroyed a timeline, not just a universe/Eternity at a specific point in time, but instead the Here Comes Tomorrow timeline. So yes she has done such a thing.
And why would she have to destroy all timelines? That makes no sense. She'd just have to destroy the timeline that the battle takes place in and then TT is powerless in a similar fashion to this-
A perfectly gd analogy. Remove the universe from the equation, render the battlefield a void and then the characters wouldnt be within a timeline for TTs powers to have any effect. What is he gonna do? TT manipulates the timestream and can effect those within it, remove the sculptors clay and what use is he? Zzzz. DEAD.
Im not going to play your game.
You tried to be clever and funny with your universe on fire point, i reminded you she was using telepathy and flopped it for ya. Now youre trying to mount another attack. Youre a funny guy
^ Why would anybody willingly contribute to their own deconstruction?
A Phoenix users' own firebird halo (which doesn't appear on top of other people's heads or objects) has nothing to do with a symbolic visualization of a Phoenix firebird or a symbolic visualization of a universe. Because we both know you don't need to hold an entire actual universe into your hands to transmit one telepathic suggestion to one person's mind.
Trapper is a sentient timeline himself who exists at the end of time where neither time nor space can exist because of entropy. Learn about a character before arguing against it.
Not true at all. Telepaths unique energy signatures often enshroud what theyre connected to, you can see this often with Karmas zig zag signature and Psylockes butterfly im sorry youve missed that well known part of continuity.
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Aug 27th, 2012 01:06 AM
