Wow, darling... your humbly admission of knowing nothing of one my character, but you've made not one but several strategical mistakes.
Mistake #1. Assuming we'll be sitting ducks.
I've shown a NUMBER of feats proving that Monet StCroix is not only the fast flyer, but a genuine speedster capable of processing information on superhuman speed. So, darling, no reflexes edge for you.
More superspeed information processing (learning how to operate almost unfamiliar tech in seconds) (please log in to view the image)
So...nowhere in here she's a sitting duck to Deathstroke.
Then. The laughable ambush tactic, and the thing that while you made yourself invisible (scan in the opening post shows WHY that doesn't work) you didn't bother to establish any false positives (not that you CAN do that satisfactory, upon further analysis the "telepath fooling" scan was being sold for more than it's worth- bog standart Danger Room training holograms can also respond to TK blasts and no telepath with proper X training is ever going to mistake one for a real person). So in 2,7 seconds needed for T-Spheres to reach my location assuming they fly on their top Mach 1 speed (which is rather unfavourable for you BTW, as ANY object approaching that speed is going to create a sonic boom=superhearing makes your location instantly known), Bird of Prey a)locates you in the very 1st second; b)screams at the ultrasonic frequensy courtesy of now-superstrong diaphragm muscles in your direction...
...And game's over. For you, cause the attack is area-covering and not beam-like... and it instantly KOed everyone in the White House whose hearing works the same way human one does. The only exception was Despero for obvious reasons of not being human.
Your amalgam consists of one baseline human (Mr T.) and two experimentally enhanced humans (Deathstroke and Cage). The key word here is human (and also the fact that Deathstroke happens to have superhearing making the effect even quicker). As soon as the wave of ultrasound hits you...you're KOed and game over.
Rictor in that instance was in the sewers a few miles away from Monet=more than enough range for the battlefield.
Also taking into the account the good degree of knowledge Dinah (and consequently Bird of Prey) knows about the tactics employed by Deathstroke and Terrific, the chances of ambush are veeeery slim).
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a...jla-jsa-049.jpg
Wide range ultrasonic scream= as long as your general direction is known (which is the very 1st second of the battle courtesy of TP and superhearing, while your T-Spheres need 2.7 seconds to reach me and do something) you're toast.
And to avoid any further confusion I'll repeat the prep & starting battle position.
Prep
1st second of a battle
Battle strategy for dummies
Should T-Spheres become a problem BEFORE BoP manages to scream (above I wrote what you need for that to happen and what are your odds)...well, there's a nice thing to do. Not that it'll ever come to play, cause standing 2.7 secs doing nothing is a BS, you know. And nothing that happens in my strat.
A noice from movement will give away the spheres' general direction anyway. It takes veeery little time for Bird of Prey to take to the air at her top speed while giving (via mindlink=instantly) command to Charcoal to release huge fire blast with heat enough to melt steel (and set nearby forest on fire) thus detonating T-Spheres heading for our location.
I'm not going even address the odds of going into aerial combat with you...just suffice to say that by doing that you've singlehandedly ruined whatever skill advantage Deatstroke has over Black Canary...as every part of The Terminator amalgam is a noob when it comes to the aerial fights.
Monet, on the contrary, had quite a few of those during her superhero career, and that coupled with Black Canary H2H skill means that... well, attempt to go aerial combat with Bird of Prey is asinine at best.
The T-Mask has shown the ability to give telescopic sight which combined with T-Sphere telemetry can pinpoint BoP's location. I wouldn't be so obtuse as to claim the Staff can bring her down in one shot or even in five shots but aimed at her neck (a soft spot) a blast could damage her ability to use her Sonic Scream. Don't even try arguing that Deathstroke can't hit a moving target, even one at Mach 1 because he most certainly can. If he can stop a Flash speedblitz then he can use the staff to snipe BoP from the get-go.
As for the ridiculous assertion that "Canary knows Deathstroke and Terrific but not the other way around" I can't believe you'd even go there.
Terminator would realize that the Sonic Scream would be the most serious threat and as such would move to neutralize/avoid it first.
He could accomplish it as such:
Granted Terminator using the T-Spheres to grant himself flight would prove problematic he might instead use them as a means to carry his facemask up into the sky and to its target.
While one or two T-Spheres run interference another T-Sphere can carry (guided to target telepathically through Terminator's headset) the facemask into the air and plant it over BoP's face.
It seems for all of the Sonic Scream's power it fails whenever the mouth is obstructed as it would be with a titanium-strength mask over it. Now unable to use the Scream and blinded BoP is now a less difficult target for a flying Terminator who can and will kill her in h/h.
Even given telepathic commands Charcoal lacks the reaction feats that prove he can do anything that Terminator won't see coming and once telepathic commands are shut off he would be a more or less sitting duck against Terminator.
On the subject of the Sonic Booms:
Ridiculous assertion. Any object as small as a T-Sphere wouldn't produce anything akin to a Jet's sonic boom. Some sound yes but no 'boom'.
Sonic Scream:
I see nothing that indicates that a long range scream could incapacitate someone with Cage level durability. What you have are proof that she can take out high level bricks with point blank screams.
As for Deathstroke's super hearing being a liability that's shown to be crap in comics as Superman (who's hearing is>>>Deathstroke's) has stood up to Silver Banshee's cry without succumbing even though logically he should have passed out rather quickly.
As for the Ultra-Sonic Scream that's all well and good but there's absolutely no proof that she could pull it off in the first second even given an increase in strength since from that scan there's no indication that strength has anything to do with it.
So if its all about concentration even given the superior thinking prowess of M BoP will still have to multitask seeking out her opponent, giving commands to Charcoal and concentrating on finding the Ultrasonic range while getting shot at by the staff.
A tall order if I do say so myself.
Charcoal:
Him burning down 1 kilometers of redwood trees (which take FOREVER to burn due to their size) is laughable given the time table you expect him to operate at.
__________________
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
I just LOLd. So you think Cage is more durable than Wonder Woman or Giganta? (OK, in case of Wonder Woman it was a copycat, but Black Alice steals EVERY power of those she copies).
Dinah was able to outscream Silver Banshee in direct confrontation between the two anyways, so that doesn't matter. Also Silver Banshee's scream doesn't go to ultrasonic range last time I saw her. And finally, cash cows are usually surrounded by the amouth of PIS unimaginable to mere mortals... thus on panel you can see Wolverine and Superman surviving sh*t they shouldn't given their powersets (like MAGIC based sonic attacks).
As for ultrasonic range, that's quite easy- in the scan you see Dr Midnite squeezing her diaphragm (and Green "Gay for Justuce" Arrow, unworthy BS of a husband, commenting on it), cause diaphragm muscles are important in that and Dinah's normally aren't strong enough to pull the stunt without outside pressure. Class 20 (at least) Dinah is another story.
"Lot of multitasking" made me LOL. Not more than say writing and listening to music at the same time.
The first one is almost instinctive. I only need to confirm the signs of a sentient being and you're the only one on the battlefield. Telepathic time is a whole lot different from objective time (specifically in that TP=FTL). So the whole confirmation process takes very little time... less than second, I'd say.
If Monet can brainwash a subway train full of people into forgetting last ten minutes of their lives on the fly AND simultaneously...she can locate the Terminator in given fraction of second.
As for directrions, transmitting "fly upwards and set the sh*t around us at fire" is hardly something complicated and time-consuming to explain and it's a fool proof (almost) strategy against incoming T-Spheres- preventive detonation due to contact with extreme hit.
Monet's durability is equal to Cage. She was able to survive direct hit to the stomach from World War Hulk without any long term crippling consequences...though it KOed her for good measure, but you're no World War Hulk and neither is your staff. (please log in to view the image)
In short, THAT'S what you need to do to KO her using kinetic energy-based attack and Deathstroke's staff fires the blasts of kinetic force akin to Cyke's eyebeams... only less powerful. And as for those less powerful stuff... see the "durability" section of my intro post.
You WON'T be able to do anything substantial to the two characters in the upper range of durability allowed in the tourney. At least not in the first second of the match when you need to survive almost isntant location via telepathy (speed of thought=much faster than the speed of T-spheres) and the following scream in the ultrasonic range. Class 20 diaphragm is my friend in that.
My strategy is simple and doesn't involve anything complicated.
Enhanced vision is cool and nice, but you're forgetting one thing. We're fighting in the forest. Dense forest that also happens to be one of the mistiest places possible on Earth (rainforest on the seashore in temperate climate=more mist that you can imagine). So sniping me from the get go is kinda hard. We aren't in the Kansas prarie engaging in gunslinger duel... and telepathy works faster than light anyways, so I pull the trigger faster- my tracking methods are ambivalent to mist, trees and stuff.
One shot from your staff anyone in my team can tank... hell, even repeated shots, cause in terms of shooting speed the thing is closer to sniper rifle and not machine gun. Knock BoP down for a second- probably if you're lucky and the shot doesn't hit any trees in the way. Do any lasting damage=no-no. As for the helicopter blowing up feat...I'm sure Banshee or Jubilee can repeat the same using their powers (or Moonstone for that case) and my characters tanked blasts from them with no problem.
As for my "ridiculous" statement- of course Mr T and Deathstroke know about REGULAR Canary Cries- saying otherwise is the ridiculous thing. It's just the wide ultrasonic range kinds of those they never seen in action (simply because normally stuff like that requires outside pressure to be put on her diaphragm cause it alone is not strong enough NORMALLY to give the pressure needed- class 20 strength is a great remedy for that).
And knows how to react to those. Especially if the tactic is as asinine as "let's try to sneak up on titanium-grade durable telepath with Class 20 strength, superhearing and Mach 1 speed with some smelly rag".
In fact, I don't even remember Cage wearing any bulletproof clothes since he stopped using Power Man alias. In New Avengers he wears regular street clothes. That's some food for thought here.
In your amalgam vs mine Deathstroke just has lost some of his major trump cards against DC street levelers- speed, sences and durability advantage. My speed is better, sences are not all around better but more than enough to compensate for advantages in some areas, durability is the same. Plus the advantage of flight and aerial maneurability. T-Spheres are good to levitate you on small distances, but for full fledged aerial combat? Lulz... your skill advantage (and DS's wins over Batman and Dick are due to stats and not skills mostly, so I doubt you have bested me in that) also goes through the window if you try that.
Omega Vision Official Post #2
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On the subject of locating BoP:
The T-Spheres are not required in locating distant targets, though they do help. The T-Mask by itself has proven itself capable of locating flying targets from beyond standard visual range: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/...visorpowers.jpg
I highly doubt a little mist and some leaves can really obstruct as sophisticated a targeting system as the T-Mask.
Even if trees get in the way of the staff blast the beam can and will shred through the canopy cover to get to its target.
On the subject of Terminator's staff:
If you compare it to a sniper rifle I can somewhat agree to that, it is like a sniper rifle in Slade's hands in that it is very accurate and powerful. However that is an incomplete, vulgar comparison because comparing it to a sniper would imply that it cannot be fired fast which is ridiculous considering Deathstroke turned around and hit the Flash with it with such speed that the Flash couldn't move to dodge it. Now Monet<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Flash in terms of reaction and speed and that isn't up for debate. http://img454.imageshack.us/i/sladeflash3ea.jpg/
Accuracy as well is less of an issue that you make it out to be. Deathstroke has hit flying targets before and though the mist and tree canopy might make it impossible for Slade on his own to hit a flying target the Terminator has his T-Mask.
Ultrasonic Scream:Whether or not her diaphragm is strong enough to create the effect isn't at issue here, its whether or not she can recreate the effect under hostile conditions without the counseling of her friends and loved ones.
Secondly the notion that Doc Mid-Nite would know about her ability to use the Ultra-sonic range but Mister Terrific (White (read: Intelligence) King of Checkmate) wouldn't is down right insulting to Mr. Holt.
...Oh yes and off-topic digression I agree with you that Ollie doesn't deserve her.
__________________
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Now you're diving into the realm of CIS. Which luckily is non-existent in the tourney. If she's done that once, she can do that again... unless presence of Green Swine...errm, Green Arrow magically amplifies her powers. Though as we see from the history, the answer is quite opposite to that- if anything, teaming up with her fugly husband (she should have listened to Babs and tell that bearded monster to f*ck off from her instead of letting him ruin her life and JLA career) makes her into She-Rhino with sonic powers.
Also, when any superhero is ill or needs serious surgical invention, whom do they call? Answer- Dr. Midnite. Not Mr Terrific. It makes sence that he's better at anathomy...
And I'm not talking about adjusting to the wind...we're not in the shooting range or open steppe. We're in the DENSE MISTY FOREST. And while that's not a problem for T-Spheres (they're also not teleporting things), that'll inhibit the accuracy of Deathstroke.
Ultrasonics basically ignore those obstacles, and telepathic search is INSTANT. BoP opens her mouth in your direction and you're KOed a few instants later.
Basically now you are using CIS-appeal as your last line of defence against ultrasonics. If you think pep talk from Dr Midnite amplified her powers, you're free to think so... but I doubt judges will think likewise.
And I've shown the scan proving that the only edge Deathstroke has over Canary lies in stats and not skills. With stats roughly equalised (Bird of Prey is physically weaker but more fast and maneurable than Terminator) it doesn't matter.
1.CIS Appeal
Basically what Omega now claims is that Black Canary won't be able to use her high end attacks without her hubby dearest being nearby (OK, I don't like Green Arrow, so I stop there and try not to mention him in my strat anymore).
Luckily she's amalgamated with a chick whose motto in life is being perfect and excelling in everything she does... (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
And who surely doesn't need any pep talk to smack you around. Black Canary is a veteran fighter as well, who knows her business and doesn't piss her panties at the sight of Deathstroke.
Don't mess with rich bitches who used to have threesomes with grandkids of British queen: (please log in to view the image)
...And even regrets of her bedding mistakes with style (and thus the amalgamation with Monet will be really healthy for Black Canary psyche).
3. Sniping duel
Both our characters have superhuman reaction speed. I don't need to dwell into "my kung fu>>>your kung fu", but just something to say.
As I've shown several times, your illusions can't TRULY fool telepath...at least not in no-real-prep encounter. TP, superhearing and sonic attacks are not hindered by trees and misty environment... while I CAN possibly throw your aim off for a while. (please log in to view the image)
One of the first things Emma Frost taught Monet is how to alter perceptions of people and mindwipe'em to keep herself unnoticed by "muggles". Now, Deathstroke surely has some impressive mental resistance feats under his belt, but making him miss a target by a few inches is not a major perception alteration and thus entirely within even M's limited skillset (she's obviously far cry from her glorious mentor). Not that it'll be much needed, though...but can be considered.
The aim of sonic attack will be near perfect- not only has Dinah mastered her own powers, but Monet has spent half of her own life close to the people with sonic powers (Banshee was her teacher and Siryn is her BFF), so amalgamation with one of them (especially highly experienced battle hardened one) won't be too tasking in terms of adjusting two powersets together.
4.You shoot first... so what?
To take Canary Cry out of the game, you need to cause severe pain to Dinah... as Deathstroke knows and usually does. Usually.
That must be real pain and not some minor irritation... cause for example, she was able to do that after Black Alice almost hanged her on the tree using Wonder Woman's lasso: http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/...ofprey97007.jpg
And causing some real pain to titanium-grade durable body in one shot is a bit beyond Deatstroke's offensive capacity.
5.Charcoal
The scans from the initial writeup (bout with Thunderbolts, fiery stuff) shows that he can handle both hits from at least a T-Sphere or two, or detonate the rest while setting the forest on fire on Bird of Prey's mental command.
And since I don't need to overcomplicate stuff with trying to actively effect Deathstroke with TP (he can't oneshot BoP anyways), the mental command is given the instance I fly up and shit goes boom. Behind me... That's if Terminator is not terminated yet by ultrasonics.
Thanks for entertaining duel, darling, and good luck
I wasn't convinced by Omega's argument that he'd be able to fight on equal footing with BoP/Charcoal in the air given that he'd be standing on top of a solitary T-sphere in mid-air for flight with presumably Luke Cage's body mass via amalgamation, whereas CDB's team can fly by their own means of propulsion and have far greater maneuverability. Something you may want to rectify via free agency Omega.
I also wasn't convinced that ripping his jacket and wrapping it around his head would provide adequate protection from the ultrasonic scream. Omega kinda played himself into a corner by going airborne with a bag over his head (literally).
Plus, as any tourney vet would know, setting forests on fire earns nostalgia points with me.
While I would like to provide a deeper analysis of this match I have to say that by the sheer amount of posting and answering Omega is kind of handicapped from the get to go. It doesn't help either that Charlotte's plan is much more likely to work given the setting and the conditions argued during the fight.
Both debaters kind of went with the regular non-amalgamated durabilities right from the start, but I think that Charlotte is much prepared to deal with the amalgam situation -hurting Black Alice looks good enough to take on Luke Cage-. The forest, the mist, the T-sphere guide etc. stopping the scream seemed possible but not as likely as the battle as CDB proposed.
So well, the vote is for Charlotte. I think its the deal breaker so I just want it to be posted quickly.
I would have liked to see Omega get some posts in before the end, which is a shame because it may have altered my decision (can't speak for the other judges, though). In the end, I think what synched it for Charlotte was the fact that Omega wasn't able to adequately be able to hang with Charlotte for a prolonged period of time. I think Omega's equipment went a long way for him as is, but not long enough to secure a win. It also didn't help that he had also brought up a form of CIS, which is a moot point here. On paper, a team of Slade + Michael Holt alone screams bad things for the other team, and as a fan of each, I would have liked to see some more posting to support Cage the Terminator and his odds here. But as is, Charlotte offered more for me to consider as well as a better plan from the get-go. Good match, guys.
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Apr 6th, 2010 08:21 PM
