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Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah all the sexist shit I said in the past hour and a half on here was me trolling you Aayla.

Here's me being serious. If you honestly think women are treated like second class citizens in America you are delusional.

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1. gender pay gap which means women are being paid around 20% less in many instances (don't say we can't close this when iceland made steps to do so recently, also don't say it doesn't exist when MANY studies have said it does)

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[o]verall, the regression analysis of earnings one year after graduation suggests that a 5 percent pay gap between women and men remains after accounting for all variables known to affect earnings.

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When women and men work less than 40 hours a week, the women earn more than the men. 134 percent for between 25 to 34 hours and 107 percent for between 35 and 39 hours.

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Men acquiring an MBA aspire to become President or CEO of both public and private companies. … Women MBAs, however, ranked management consulting, executive level vice-President positions and non-profit executive management high among their career goals. … Men expect to hold the top leadership positions, and for women, it is still the exception.

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This would also explain why men are more likely to seek after dangerous jobs with hazard pay. Thus, men make up 93 percent of workplace fatalities. Professor James Bennett found 20 differences between what men and women do in the workplace that influence income that aren’t found in the raw numbers — which is all the “77 cents on the dollar” takes into account. These reasons include,

Men go into technology and hard sciences more than women.

Men tend to take more stressful jobs that are not "nine-to-five."

Men are more likely to work longer hours, and the pay gap widens for every hour past 40 per week.

Women are more likely to have "gaps" in their careers, primarily because of child rearing and child care. Less experience means lower pay.

The reason women are more likely to have a gap in their career is what economist Walter Block coined as Marriage Asymmetry Hypothesis in a study criticizing the wage gap back in 1981. Namely, when a man and woman get married, what typically happens is the man will take on the lion’s share of making money and the woman will take on the lion’s share of raising the children (a fact that has been demonstrated time and time again).

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Research also suggests that differences not incorporated into the model due to data limitations may account for part of the remaining gap. Specifically, CONSAD’s model and much of the literature, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics Highlights of Women’s Earnings, focus on wages rather than total compensation. Research indicates that women may value non-wage benefits more than men do, and as a result prefer to take a greater portion of their compensation in the form of health insurance and other fringe benefits. In principle, more of the raw wage gap could be explained by including some additional variables within a single comprehensive analysis that considers all of the factors simultaneously; however, such an analysis is not feasible to conduct with available data bases. Factors, such as work experience and job tenure, require data that describe the behavior of individual workers over extended time periods. The longitudinal data bases that contain such information include too few workers, however, to support adequate analysis of factors like occupation and industry.

Cross-sectional data bases that include enough workers to enable analysis of factors like occupation and industry do not collect data on individual workers over long enough periods to support adequate analysis of factors like work experience and job tenure. Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

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Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
I am not sure why I am taking the musings of a troll seriously

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Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
I am not sure why I am taking the musings of a troll seriously, but I think this is a funny conversation nonetheless.

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A lot of claims with not a lot of evidence. Is there evidence of a 20% gender pay gap due to discrimination? It is empirically true that the average man earns more money than the average female on an annual basis. It is this comparison which creates the idea that men make 20% more than the opposite gender. This discrepancy is demonstrated in this chart:

The obvious problem with this comparison is that it does not account for the myriad factors which influence revenues, i.e., hours worked, maternity leave, experience, and general work ethic.

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If we assume revenue is a valid indicator of discrimination would it be fair for me to say that men are discriminated among bakers (104 percent), teacher assistants (105 percent), nutritionists (101 percent), and occupational therapists (102 percent)? There are also ten more jobs where females are paid more than males. From these statistics alone, it is evident that this sort of data is clearly flawed. Are those 15 industries the only ones which do not discriminate? How about in these 11 cities where women make far more then men do? These are not small numbers either as shown by Atlanta (121 percent), New York (117 percent), and San Diego (115 percent). It would be absurd to presume that men are discriminated in those cities and industries.

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There are two reasons I do not think this 5% gap is due to discrimination.

1. There is too much variance across occupation, race, age, and location to draw any meaningful comparison on the basis of prejudice.
2. There was a 2003 Census Bureau Current Population Survey which showed that,


This type of comparison leads to my next point. So, what gives? I would guess the difference arises from mentality specifically in regards to career goals. To quote a survey looking at career choices,


The Mises Institute sums up this topic quite handily,

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This difference in work ethic explains why Unmarried Women make more than their male counterparts. According to a study published in the Journal of Economic Perspective, there is no wage gap between men and women living alone from the age of 21-35. And among unmarried college-educated men and women between forty and sixty-four, men earn an average of $40,000 a year and women earn an average of $47,000 a year! The CONSAD Research Group conducted the most comprehensive study done on this topic for the Bureau of Labor. They found,

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This demonstrates that hidden variables in conjunction with career goals are likely the cause of any gender pay gap. I will address your other points later, but I would appreciate the courtesy of capitalization if you chose to respond.

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um excuse me?? i have said many times that i am not a troll but a human being who has my own opinions. i have been here since june 2016 and have contributed in that time with many threads and posts which other members have appreciated. that is not behavior of a troll but speaking of a troll you created a troll 'sidious disrespect thread' not too long ago so maybe look in the mirror next time????

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ok so we have established that there is a gap. you can say that there are other reasons but there is a gap. and it is actually smaller in countries that have tried to fight it like the scandinavian countries which would tell us that it is not some immutable thing.

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also notice that the countries with the smallest gaps tend to be western and with more advanced societies whereas the ones with the largest are where women are oppressed. rwanda and phillipines are exceptions but for the most part it is clear that countries which are more socially advanced and have accepted modern concepts like feminism tend to have smaller pay gaps.

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i never said that the gap was always due to discrimination. it is more due to our patriarchal society as a whole and its gender norms which i will explain later on in the post (and which by the way can sometimes disadvantage men too but usually not most of the time). also looking at the situation at the micro level does not take away what is happening on the macro level. you are strawmanning my argument and saying that i am always blaming things on discrimination. no there are obviously other factors involved but that does not change the nature of the gap and the feminist arguments.

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so this is what i'm talking about when i said earlier in the post about gender norms and the nature of our patriarchal society affecting the pay gap more than just discrimination. throughout most of history the best paying jobs have been reserved for men and more high paying and STEM related jobs have been male dominated. there is also the issue of internalized oppression which opens up a whole new set of problems (ie. most women will not strive for the top because they do not believe they can make it). child rearing and child care is directly caused by historic religious norms which have pressured women to have children even if they don't want to. this is why feminists ask for women to be able to control their own body and control their lives. so once again i don't disagree that there are other factors but they do not debunk the overreaching feminist narrative. give women more power over their lives and destroy the gender norms which keep them away from higher paying fields and women will thrive.

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again there are some issues with this:

1. exceptions on micro level do not debunk trends in society as a whole
2. feminists do not deny that men can sometimes be disadvantaged by gender norms, and men being disadvantaged in some places does not debunk the feminist narrative
3. career choices and "work ethic" are strongly influenced by gender norms and internalized oppression. this are things that feminists have been calling out.

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Originally posted by Emperordmb
Damn Aayla, make that man a sandwich cuz you just got RAPED

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Originally posted by Emperordmb
Damn Aayla, make that man a sandwich cuz you just got RAPED