anyway, getting back on topic, Ush has just proved to us that there is only one matrix by explaining what the oracle said to Niobe. There is no matrix within a matrix. Zion is real. The matrix is fake.
__________________ Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
good question with this two "matrixes". But why only two? How do the people in the "real World" know that this world in which they live in is the real one?
You see, you can go on and on in this way and youīll never come to an end.
__________________ HOWARD SHORE IS THE MASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seraph, if you had read all of the other posts, you would see why the "real" world is not another matrix. Go back about one or two pages and read my really long post as well as Ush's ideas and everyone elses.
Now the deal with Bane, I do believe is something pretty cool.
When Neo killed Smith, and Neo was copied into Smith and Smith into Neo, a connection was made between them. Now, what if say, this connection wasn't just for that one moment in time, but was a continuous open connection. A live feed from Smith to Neo that is always open.
What I'm trying to say is, that connection was just in that one place in time, but has existed since from that time on. Just as Smith knows where all his copies are, and what they are doing, he knows where Neo is and what he is doing because of the "continuous live feed" connection between him and Neo. So, when Neo's mind brushed with the source, Smith's/Bane's mind did as well.
I believe that you are right on this point, Tuur.
__________________ Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
I heard someone say that they didn't understand what happened at the end of Matrix Reloaded. From what I got out of the movie, to me it seemed that they are in a Matrix that is within another Matrix. When neo said he could feel the sentenals that was because everyone is still in a program. The reason Neo is in a coma is because he set himself free from the Matrix. Like they said in the movie the one freed some of the first out of the matrix, and since he is out he can start to go back in to save others.
Well anyways thats my opinion.
My friend and I argue over the Multiple matrix idea. At this point we have agreed to disagree. haha.
It really suprises me how many ppl leave the movie thinking there is a matrix within a matrix. Not that its not possible, I just don't agree. Its just kinda interesting that almost eveyone's first thought was that of two matrices. Mine definitely wasn't...guess we'll find out for sure in November.
Remember the boy who runs up to give something to Neo? What was it? A spoon. Why? Because there is no spoon. But wait...the orphan...obviously the same one that said it in the LAST movie...is now in Zion. And he makes the boy SWEAR to deliver the package BEFORE Neo leaves. Why? What does the spoon mean?
1. I know you're going back into the Matrix...remember, there is no spoon there... Nah...Neo's pretty good there.
2. Thanks for getting me out? Nah, that could have waited until Neo got back.
3. Now I'm in the 'real' world, and I can tell you...there is STILL no spoon!
Or what about the Oracle...
"How are you feeling?"
"I, uh..."
"I know you're not sleeping. Well get to that."
Huh? What does she mean by that? She's hinting at something...
And the architect...
"99% of all test subjects accepted the program so long as they were offered a choice."
A choice of "The City" or "Zion." Those that CHOOSE Zion tend to accept the program because they made the choice...get it?
Remember the first scene when Neo gets to the architect? What is he looking at? Stars. The universe. Implying that the Matrix is much LARGER than we perhaps might think...
Bottom line, I believe that Zion is not necessarily "another" matrix, so much as another PART of the Matrix... But it is NOT the 'real' world.
In fact, there might not BE a 'real' world. If Zion is in fact another part of the Matrix, then the part about being batteries may well be a lie. Which would explain why it was so easy for the Architect to say that "there are levels of survival that we are willing to accept." Yeah, because what you believe is a lie...and their death doesn't impact us directly like you think it does...
And consider that according to the Architect, Neo is "carrying code", or that somehow parts of Neo could be transferred to Smith... Could "human" just be a TYPE of program that was never really given the knowledge that it is in fact a program? And could the whole purpose of the Matrix really be less about "control" and more about 'influencing them to raise their consciousness?' That perhaps the Anomaly is really what they want (hence their desire to get their hands on his "code"). That the REAL purpose of the matrix is to develop a program that grows BEYOND the bounds of its original programming?
The spoon means that the orphan got out. It was also a means of saving Neo's life.
As for the Oracle. She wouldn't be much of one if she didn't know everything that was going on. Obviously she must know what's going on with Neo, in the matrix or not.
In fact, if you believe in the matrix within a matrix idea, the Oracle prooves it with that quote. "I know you're not sleepy, we'll get to that."
Obviously he's not sleeping because he's not "plugged in" a matrix. he's free. How do we know? In the first movie Neo talks to the client whom which he sells his virus to.
Neo: "Have you ever had the feeling when you're not sure if you're still awake or still dreaming?"
What was from the first movie. He wasn't sure of his dreams or reality. He could not distinguish them at all. Morpheus says the samn thing.
Morpheus: "Have you ever had a dream, Neo, which you thought was so real, what if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference betwen the dream world, and the real world?"
Ok so that too was from the first movie. Well what does Neo do in this movie? He DREAMS! and then he wakes up from those dreams! He is able to distinguish from his dreams and reality now that he is living in the real world.
Before, when he was in The Matrix, he wasn't able to do the same thing.
Remember the scene after the agents bug Neo, he's freakin out, and the next thing we know, he wakes up! We thought it was actually a dream, but it turned out not to be.
In this movie, we, the audience KNOW what he's dreaming and what he's actually doing. We, as well as him, can tell the difference between his dreams and reality. Prooving that there is only ONE matrix
__________________ Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Too many people have said that Zion is a false place where humans go thinking they are free because they have made the choice. Thios is not an analysis that fits the facts. Just because they think they have made a choice to be free does NOT make them any less of a problem! As I have pointed out, those in the matrix THINK they are free as well.
it has nothing to do with what in-Matrix decisions you make. If you are IN this false reality you SUBCONCIOUSLY know it. And so it only works if you can choose to be in or out- that choice has to be for REAL> So Zion has to be real else the people in there would still subconciously know they were in a false world and it would not work; they had made no choice at all.
That these choices have to be present and genuine is one of the basic points of the film.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
If there are two matrix everything changes, because what was suposed to be true might not be true anymore. For example:
- If someone died in the original matrix, then died in the "real world matrix" but not necessarly in the real world, so no batteries would be lost. So there would be no bothering at all... everything would be virtual.
- If there are two matrix, we donīt know if the real world exists.. everything could be a virtual process.
- Are all the people in Zion humans?, itīs Neo a human or just a process to keep people happy? (suposing now that these people is alive somewhere).
Also, from the conversation with architect and from what Neo says before stopping the sent, itīs clear that they are still in the matrix.
When neos code got mixed up with the code of agent smith.He was still an agent.Agents program sentinels.so he took the ability to program them like smiths brain is in that one guy.Even if there was a double matrix neo wouldnt have those powers till he got out of it.
There is only one matrix. I will try to make you understand, so you will know where the third matrix starts. Two ships are left in the fleet the logos and the hammer. The logos is Captian Niobe's ship. The Hammer is the strongest ship in the fleet, which can launch an EMP while still operating its hovercraft mobility. At the end of Matrix reloaded the Hammer was sent to find survivors of the counter attack. When it arrived the machines tried to attack them, but they let off an EMP destroying the machines and knocking the human in which agent smith was in the body of out cold. Once the Hammer picked up it's survivor it headed north on the orders of Commander Lock to bring in the crew of the Neb, so that they could have more ships to defend the front gates of Zion, besides the powerful Hammer. When the hammer comes to the NEB., the NEB crew are running though the tunnels away from the sentinals. This is when the story gets interesting. The Hammer goes into action. The Wac Brothers decided not to show this in the movie, so all you fans could have your random thoughts. The Hammer pushes forward and launches an EMP, YES WHILE STILL MOVING, Neo turns puts up his hand and gets shocked by the EMP and the Sentinels and himself fall to the ground. Now this is how NEO got shocked.
In the first movie Neo destroys agent smith by going inside of him. Agent Smith though is thrown out of the agent society, The Arcitect confronts agent smith and gives him special powers letting him control and feel other robots. Now this is what you don't know, after NEO talks to the Oracle agent smtih comes and fights. Agent Smith tried to take neo over, but neo overcomes him. Smith's powers to control of robots is placed inside of him, but neo does not know that yet. This power has to be awakened by a huge emotional push through the body. That is what makes this "the one" different from all the rest. NEO receives the kiss of emotion from Persephone, which is the other maker of the MATRIX that the Artchitect was talking about.
Now lets get to the point NEO talks to the artchitect and runs and saves Trinity causing the emotional rush and the robot that was already inside of him trigger, now the robots awakeness was a cause of all three. Agent Smith, The Emotional rush, and Persephone. Now heres the trick that nobody seems to see. The program was already inside to NEO. THe oracle knew this everytime she talked to him. The oracle kept saying is that what you want to hear. This is where the third movie starts. Inside to neo is a renegade program, that the architect thought he could control, but he couldn't because the maker of emotion persephone hacked the program and made it a renegade, like the oracle, keymaker and other which you will see. The revolution takes place when the renegade programs and the humans fight back. I am sorry, but I will get in trouble if i tell you anymore information.
I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but NEO is the link he is half robot and half human. ZION is still around. There is only ONE matrix. I didn't like the story on the set either, but the end of the trilogy is unbelievable. I think all of you will be amazed. I WAS.
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Jun 3rd, 2003 12:07 AM
