KMC Forums - Dooku vs Mace--Metal Swords

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Originally posted by Janus Marius
No, actually they're not. The top blade (Spanish rapier) is not adapted for the fencing styles you may be familiar with today (And that's because it predates them by hundreds of years.) The weapon was initially made by peasants, and was sharpened on the sides, making it useable for sideways cuts as well as thrusting. The main purpose of the blade was to make swordplay depend less on extensive physical strength and more on speed of hand and speed of mind. Also, the range gives the amateur a comfortable barrier between himself and the opponent. Later on, this evolved into the fencing form we see today. But what Dooku uses is based more on the original classic form, which DOES include cuts and deflection.

Actually the rapier would give Dooku a range advantage if he had developed the footwork needed to use the rapier. You have to realize that this "range" is coming from stabbing movements (moving the food of your weapon hand side as far as it goes towards the opponent and step him with the weapon while extending the arm with the weapon and leaning towards the opponent). And this particular form of movement is not present in Dooku's fighting style.

Besides of that the blade of a rapier is not the toughest thing to have. And because of that fencers often use parry-daggers (offhand) to parry opponents and even break the opponents blade with that weapon.

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Now, I'm not sure where you concluded that a katana was stronger than a rapier (Cuz it's not- some of the best steelmakers in the western world come from Toledo, Spain) but that's not the case.

The problem is that (estimating Dooku and Mace get the best weapons available) the Katana is better. First: Medieval rapiers were crafted out of iron, not steel (see above). Then even if you give Dooku a steel weapon: The best Katanas available have a blade design called "soshu kitae" invented by mastersmith Masamune. The blade is contains 7 different layers of steel. You have a soft core, medium hard steel between the core and the blades (2 layers) and hard steel on the blade(s) (2 layers) and the apex and at the bottom of the blade (to ensure stability).

In contrary a rapier is formed of one sort of metal (most likely hard or medium steel) thus making it possible for the katana user to destroy the rapier with a few strikes (or even with one if enough strength used) because of either braking it (less flexibility) or cutting right through it (steel with less hardness grade).

Or to make it clearer: If you own a Katana crafted out of 440 steel better throw it away because this is steel designed for knives with a HRC of 56 max - a real Katana has a blade hardness of 62+ HRC giving your regular steel weapon a huge problem. A "real" Katana shouldn't be confused with the machinal crafted stuff used in WW2.

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Also, while Mace Windu is forced to move his entire top half with each strike (Keep in mind, swinging a katana is a lot like swinging a reaper- you have to swing from the hips more often than not), Dooku can concentrate on footwork, keep a comfortable barrier between him and Mace, and literally pick him apart. And your average katana has a smaller range than your average rapier, too.

I wonder what weapons you are talking about and what style the fighters should use.

A rapier has a weight between 1.2 and 1.6 KG, a Katana one between 0.8 and 1.4 KG. The blade length of a Rapier is usually between 60 and 90 cm, the Katana between 2 and 3 shaku (60,6 - 90,9 cm) and since Dooku uses real fencing movements (stabbing motions) their range would be nearly equal.

And whatever movies you have seen: Katana swordfighting is based on arm and wrist movements. A Katana can be used as slashing and thrusting weapons, with both hands as well as one handed. The swordmaster Miyamoto Musashi even went so far to create his fighting style called Niten Ichiryū ("Two heavens - one style") using two weapons (Katana mainhand, Wakizashi offhand) as descriped in his book Gorin no Shō ("Book of the five rings"). The only thing that is common in most styles of Katana swordfighting is the idea that you never swing the axis of the blade vertical but instead use a mixture of pulling and cutting movement.

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Add that to the fact that Mace has to really adapt to a limited style, and you have Dooku triumphing in this case.

That "limited style" isn't more limited than the "rapier style". In fact the rapier user is more limited since powerful two handed strikes aren't possible using a rapier while a katana can be used in nearly every imaginable way. The "grap with two hands and slash only" technique is more or less a myth coming from the observation of the famous "cut through the damn helmet" ceremony often shown by Shinkendo masters even today. If you show me the Kenjitsu master stupid enough to try something like that on a opponent that wears no armor I'll call the Katana a "limited weapon".

As far as I can judge it Mace's lightsaber style resembles the weapon giving to him better than it's the case for Dooku. Given the weapon advantage and estimating that both are equal with a lightsaber I have to say that Mace is most likely going to win this.