Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
This is the death of AncientPower:
A starburst of clarity blossoms within i_like_swords's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the dishonesty within his enemy can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
AP is dead already. The rest is mere detail.
The play is still on; the comedy of rhetorical quips and emotional snaps and rage-induced hisses. AP and ILS, a one-time-only command performance, for an audience of many. Fabricator and liar, moron and Vitidiot, arguing, lying, forging quotes, crying and weeping, mocking, insulting, b itching and moaning and ripping the thread around them with posts of stupidity.
And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed i_like_swords's Sheevite restraint, and determination becomes logic without effort, and logic is a blade that makes his arguments into a toy.
The play goes on, but the suspense is over. It has become mere pantomime, as intricate and as meaningless as the space-time curves that guide versus threads through a measureless forum.
AP's decades of debating experience are irrelevant. Its mastery of sophistry is useless. Its vast retardation, its forum influence, flagrant dishonesty, laughably low IQ, unbelievable self-delusion—the pursuits and points of pride to which it has devoted so much of its time and attention over the long, long years of its career—are now chains hung upon its spirit, bending its neck before the ax.
Even its knowledge of the Vitidiocy has become a joke.
It is this knowledge that shows it its death, makes it handle it, turn it this way and that in its mind, examine it in detail like a black gemstone so cold it burns. AP's comedic farce has degenerated into bathetic melodrama, and not one shed tear will mark the passing of its loser.
But for ILS, in the fight there is only logic, and rhetoric.
Only he stands between death and the two characters he loves best in all the world, and he can no longer afford to hold anything back. That imaginary pseudo-cowboy tries its best to freeze away his strength, to whisper him that Maul lost before, that Maul has none of the power of Sheev, to remind him how Maul got thrown off a cliff, how Maul could be struck down by even Padawan Obi-Wan himself seemingly without effort and now ILS is all alone and he will never be a able to restore Maul's honor on the forums—
But The Tempest's words Maul moonwalks through the ancient Sith have given ILS permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his frustrations and all his doubts shrivel in its flame.
When AncientPower flies at him, arguments flashing, Maul's fist cracks out from ILS' childhood to knock the Vitidiot tumbling back.
When with all the power that dishonesty can draw from throughout twitter, AP hurls a forged quote from Filoni saying Maul sucks, the Zabrak's confident boast At last we will have revenge, ILS smashes it aside.
His head has been filled with the smoke from his smothered heart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens his mind. In Carthage's threads, in Filoni's office, on his couch watching Rebels, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but here now, within this thread, this microscopic cell of life in the infinitesterile desert of KMC, his firewalls have opened so that the anger and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and ILS's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that AP should lose the same integrity Maul lost.
Decision is reality, here: his arguments moves simultaneously with his will and logical acumen vaporizes black Vitidiot nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a retard's keyboard hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of putrid dishonesty still extending from its spastic death grip, and ILS's heart sings for the fall of that disgusting filth.
He reaches out and Maul's newly-restored honor catches it for him.
And then ILS takes AP's other hand as well.
AP crumples to its knees, face blank, mouth slack, and its weapon whirs through the air to the victor's hand, and ILS finds his vision of the future happening before his eyes: two arguments at AP's throat.
But here, now, the truth belies the dream. Both arguments are in his hands, and the one in his hand of poetic justice flares with the blatant bullshit of a sophistic lie.
AP, cringing, shrinking with dread, still finds some hope in its heart that it is wrong, that the forum has not betrayed it, that this has all been proceeding according to plan—
Until he hears "Good, ILS! Good! I knew you could do it!" and registers this is the audience's voice and feels within the darkest depths of all it is the approach of the words that are to come next.
"Kill it," the audience says. "Kill it now."
In 'Swords's eyes it sees only flames.
"KMC, please!" it gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for its life, as so many of its victims have. "Please, you promised me to inflate my ego! We had a deal! Help me!"
And his begging gains it a share of mercy equal to that which he has dispensed.
"A deal only if you stopped lying," the audience replies, cold as interthread space. "Not if you forged quotes to suit your agenda."
And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. The Tempest's plan, not his own. This had been a Sheevite trap indeed, but Sheevites were not the quarry.
They were the bait.
"ILS," the audience says quietly. "Finish it."
Years of watching Maul's humiliations make ILS hesitate; he looks down upon AP and sees not a pathological liar but a beaten, broken, cringing sad creature.
"I shouldn't—"
But when the audience barks, "Do it! Now!" ILS realizes that this isn't actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing morethan what he's been waiting for his whole life.
Permission.
And AP—
As its looks up into the eyes of i_like_swords for the final time, AncientPower knows that it has been humiliated not just today, but for many, many years. That it has never been a good debater. That it has never been a candidate for the best debaters list. It has been only a loser.
His whole career—all its victories, all its struggles, all its heritage, all its principles and its sacrifices, everything it's done, everything it owns, everything it's been, all its dreams and grand vision for a forum where Vitiate is ranked number 1 and Exar Kun is capable of one-shotting DE Sheev—have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of it, add up only to this.
He has existed only for this.
This.
To be the victim of i_like_swords's first victory in his renewed campaign.
First but not, it knows, the last.
Then the arguments crossed at his throat uncross like scissors.
Whats this idea that a Kaggath has to be an army fight? They can easily be 1 on 1 fights, as Tormens was. Even Nox and Thanatons Kaggath was just a series of small fights culminating in a 1 v 1. Victun and Qalar's fight was specifically called a duel between the two of them on the Citadel grounds. Theres no possibility of capital ships or anything else and no military would be permitted into the Citadel. Especially since at the time the military wasn't allowed in the Citadel. This is ridiculous.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Jan 28th, 2018 at 12:58 PM
This isn't hard to understand. The Kaggath itself was referred to as the "duel," which is commonly referred to as a no-holds-barred fight between two Sith with all of their resources. The citadel was destroyed during the Kaggath, which means it could have been destroyed by anything over any given length of time, and the idea that their military wasn't involved because they "weren't allowed" has got to be the stupidest argument I've ever heard; they were punished for destroying the citadel, and their names became "epithets" within the Empire as a result. They violated one of just two rules of a Kaggath, don't harm the Empire, and that's what they did, hence their infamy for it.
You do not have a leg to stand on. But by all means, tell me more about how exaggerated all of OCW's feats are, feats which I don't even need to use since there are others I have presented, while you attempt to pass these two largely unknown Sith off as citadel-busters without a shred of evidence.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Also, I love how Neph is trying to suggest these two randoms that Nox apparently scales far above are so powerful they waste a citadel as a byproduct of their fight, while simultaneously arguing that Nox and Thanaton's Kaggath was a series of small duels wherein absolutely f*ckall got destroyed.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Oh for f*ck's sake AP, I hope that when you claimed to me that it's stated their assets were still "fully intact" that you didn't just mean "the other Dark Council members executed them and used their assets to rebuild what had been destroyed", lmfao.
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Just to really drive the point home, though: the only reason Thanaton and Nox's "Kaggath" was small scale was because the nature of their conflict was small scale to begin with, and Tormen's "Kaggath" was him immediately beheading someone who challenged him to a Kaggath on the spot. Otherwise, they are famously large-scale military operations.
This also goes nowhere in explaining how two Sith can be "epithets" within the Empire for their Kaggath destroying a citadel... only for the Dark Council to host a Kaggath between two equally capable Sith inside the Dark Council chamber, risking destroying everything.
Shit makes no sense.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
The fact that the events are referenced doesn't matter. I'm not suggesting that they're completely fabricated, merely exaggerated. AP already provided the official statement that the events are exaggerations that aren't reflective of a characters true capabilities.
And sure, I'm aware of the foggy window concept. It's what I argue with in mind, in fact. The issue comes when someone attempts to claim that all material is exaggerated therefore its all just as valid as each other. This is not true. There are official statements saying that TFU and OCW were exaggerated media's, therefore its a fact that those ones are. But there is no such proof that Swtor is likewise other than that some people don't like it (and a comment on twitter I suppose). So the fact of the matter is that the OCW feats are clearly foggy and shouldn't be used as scaling.
If the lightning wasn't required to kill it he obviously wouldn't have used it. And I think you're being assumptive in the suggestion that a single lightsaber stab would kill it, you don't even know if the brain is that far forward for instance. Regardless the lightning had enough potency to light up the terentateks skeleton in spite of its near Force immunity. Its an incredibly impressive feat performed 40 years before his prime. And Nox shit-stomped him, before continuing to improved through the expansions up until getting similarly dominated by Arcann.
If those are really Obi-Wans best feats then he's even shittier than I recall. A casual, weakened Act I 'Thor has better feats. The tree one is the best admittedly but its performed with clear effort. Furthermore you bring up the idea that trees are difficult to uproot and usually they are, because of their roots. Which those trees don't appear to have. Or at least not very deep ones. Thats nothing on 'Thor casually bending a reinforced blast door the size of a house while weakened right out of the freaking prologue:
(please log in to view the image)
You can take it however you want, you asked why I felt the TOR protags are better than Maul and I answered.
I called him godlike because its the best descriptor for what he is. Hes an entity composed of the darkside of an entire species. And no I highly doubt the Wrath could draw on the Dark Heart, given that its Sel-Makors power in the first place. In fact the Dark Heart is probably Sel-Makor himself as its a bodiless entity of pure darkside power.
What do you mean post a video? Thats the plot, you can go watch the cutscenes yourself if you want. The HoT obviously saves Voss from Fulminis' planetary madness wave. That the specific thing I was talking about, Fulminis was going to use Sel-Makors power to unleash his madness technique on the entire planet. A Voss mystic has a vision of the planet drowning in blood if you don't stop him. As for the galaxy thing a Voss spirit tells the Warrior that if Sel-Makor had escaped out of the Dark Heart "all existence is at risk".
Nah, Arcann is is an exemplary duelist above the standard Hero or Wrath who are comparable to Maul and Maul is hopelessly outmatched when it comes to the Force. So far nothing you've posted suggests Maul can resist getting ragdolled off the bat by Arcann. Choking Kenobi, which even Ventress is capable of, isn't remotely enough. Maul gets destroyed as I said.
Sorry, ILS, but your interpretation that Malgus' battlefield feats refer to his capacity as a commander, leader or general is utter bullshit.
In this quote alone is clear as crystal that the source of Malgus' unduplicated battlefield feats is his power and the source of this power is his complete devotion to a certain aspect of the dark side: anger.
After a paragraph where Sidious ponders about the potential strength of a Force Storm, we have the following:
There's also evidence Sidious does have access to material about Malgus that wasn't included in his compilation of the Book of Sith: an entry about illustrious past Sith, written by Darth Bane, that refers about Darth Malgus the Sacking of Coruscant and Sidious' reference about Malgus being the proof that a wounded warrior can be sustained with rage, despite the fact Malgus' journal doesn't refer to a single instance where the Sith was wounded. Not to count Malgus' entry in the Encyclopedia, which Sidious most likely had access to, that also contain certain accolades like Malgus taking fortifications single-handedly.
To conclude, Malgus' unduplicated battlefield feats are a natural consequence of his power and personal strength as reiterated twice by Darth Sidious. They aren't the consequence of occult and uncited qualities.
The only rules of the Kaggath, dumbass. A Kaggath doesn't make a Sith immune to all laws while it goes on. Nox and Thanaton are still beholden to their peers while theirs goes on. And no personal military would even be allowed to approach the Citadel before being attacked by the Imperial forces. They'd have rebel against the Empire itself just to do that, for no goddamn reason. Its not as if they have to fight in the one place in the entire Empire where they can't use military forces. It would defeat the entire point of the Kaggath for them to do that. Whats the point of declaring a 1 on 1 fight if you then pick a fight with the whole Empire too? Its suicide.
"Famously large-scale military operations"? Lolwut? Name a single one that is, genius. Every one that we know about ended in a 1v1 duel to the death. The codex specifically says that the Kaggath is "one-part duel". The text in the codex and the encyclopedia pretty clearly lays out that Victun and Qalar dueled each other and drew after destroying the Citadel. They were obviously fighting 1 on 1. No mention at all of anyone but the two of them. Its entirely baseless and illogical to suggest anyone else was involved.
Nox and Thanaton just weren't careless like Victun and Qalar were and the Dark Council was personally supervising their fight. Its not like Maul blows shit up either. Effective combatants focus their attacks on their opponents.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Jan 28th, 2018 at 02:42 PM
AP provided a quote stating that canon Windu with OCW Windu’s abilities would have solo’d the Geonosis arena battle, which is why it’s exaggerated. That doesn’t have anything to do with a legends versus debate.
SWTOR is absolutely exaggerated compared to the movies, in which one of Sidious’ premier feats is throwing senate pods. If you’re going to claim SWTOR is a less foggy window than TFU and OCW because the feats are inferior, then I’ll just claim SWTOR is too foggy a window to use in kind, until we get to the point where we agree SWTOR isn’t canon therefore doesn’t exist.
And btw, Sith spirits, rituals draining the life force of entire planets and half of the other concepts SWTOR endorses are totally out of line with how Lucas and the Story Group view the Force, indeed, Filoni stated that Sith spirits existing after death is not something they think should even be possible, and is why Lucas cut Bane and Revan’s spirits out of TCW, so tell me more about how I should care about all of the fog surrounding Nox and his ghost pals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFv...tu.be&t=110
Does nothing to change the lightsaber in the creature’s brain. His lightning was not an important part of the thing’s death.
I’m being assumptive that a lightsaber in the brain might contribute a lot to killing a creature? Tell me more. I think you’re being assumptive in thinking I wouldn’t quickly google the feat after you tried to pass it off as “Thanaton oneshots a terentatek with lightning.”
Shiny.
[quote[Its an incredibly impressive feat performed 40 years before his prime. And Nox shit-stomped him, before continuing to improved through the expansions up until getting similarly dominated by Arcann.[/quote]Making a creature with a stabbed brain light up is inferior to all of Anakin, Kenobi, Ventress, Savage, Saato and Trenox’s feats.
Likewise Savage Opress rather casually destroyed a prison door made out of the famously lightsaber-proof Beskar.
“Apprentice, I wish to tour this facility,” he said.
A moment later, the door to their cell exploded outward, ripped away by a tremendous surge in the Force.
[...]
They lead Satine to a prison cell in her own palace, shutting her in a little room with a cot, desk, and chair, behind a door made of Mandalorian iron.
―Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
The key difference between the feats being, the Barsen’thor merely bent the door in, whereas in these feats tougher materials were destroyed and ripped apart.
Not to mention, you haven’t provided a viable counter to Anakin’s dreadnought feat and the massive line of scaling Maul gets from it.
That’s how it works, yeah.
And the Wrath is a guy with a lightsaber, like Maul, so let’s dispense with the flowery descriptions. Start telling me about how quantifiably powerful this avatar of Makor was when the Wrath killed it.
Post the video and provide dialogue, I’m not going trawling through a game I don’t even care about to verify your claims for you. I’ve already had to dig up a comic scan and two codex feats you were lying about.
You’re going to have a hard time providing even one feat or accolade for them that exceeds what Maul has from about a dozen different sources.
I have absolutely proven Maul wouldn’t be ragdolled by Arcann, stop being absurd. He’s one of the most powerful and best trained Sith ever by all empirical data. Your lines of scaling are far inferior to those I have presented, with Anakin and his dreadnought feat (better than anything any of the protags have done by a longshot) being at the bottom and Maul being two layers of ragdolling and a power-up above him. And it wasn’t a tough feat for Anakin, so it’s not representative of his “full potential” or whatever bullshit you might have wanted to cook up.
You know, I can forgive someone for not doing their research, not having access to a book or just missing something - which I’m assuming is why you missed the quote from the TOR: Encyclopedia stating that the rule where non-Sith are not allowed to enter the citadel was “shattered when the Citadel was destroyed during a duel, or “Kaggath,” between two rival Sith Lords.”
But you know what I can’t forgive? Dishonesty and stupidity. And you, my friend, have both in spades.
Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, you colossal idiot. And yes, it’s referred to as a Kaggath in the TOR:E. Tulak Hord’s Kaggath spanned “farthest reaches of the galaxy,” but sure, let’s pretend these things are TK dick waving contests because it helps your self-esteem.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Sidious makes explicit mention to Malgus as a soldier in the context of the Great Galactic War, which was a huge success for the Emperor at that time. Malgus' "battlefield feats which have not been duplicated" very much refer to the full package Malgus brings to the table; skill, power, leadership and general soldiering. Passing this accolade off as superior to Sidious saying "Maul, your skill with a lightsaber has no equal" or "Vader, you are better at killing Jedi than anyone else, including General Grievous and Durge who each killed hundreds," is not only foolish, but insulting.
I like Malgus a lot, and I don't deny he's a powerhouse, I simply disagree that this accolade is on-par with anything Maul or Vader have or that he is superior to either of them because of it.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Neph: OCW & TFU can't be used! They're exaggerated!
Story Group guy: anything that is more powerful than what's seen in the movie is exaggerated, including swtor.
Neph: Nuh uh!
Never change, Neph. You're like the Fox News of KMC, minus the popularity.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
More like the CNN tbh.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Naturally. He also makes explicit mention to Malgus as a warrior in the very same paragraph he's talking about his battlefield feats. This is widely known and has never been disputed. Why you brought it up as a counter to some supposed cherry picking remains a mystery though.
And what made these "unduplicated battlefield feats" possible was his power as it's completely clear in the sources I provided above. His supposed and hypothetical feats based on the merit of leadership and soldiering you are trying to highlight are objectively subordinated to his power according to the very source.
It's not superior regarding the facet of lightsaber skill but Maul's accolade also doesn't automatically give him superiority as a warrior, in general, as well. These two quotes estabilishes both Malgus and Maul very high up in the food chain and my grievance with your approach is that you, curiously, cherry picked an aspect of your liking (leadership and soldiering), ignored the objective source that allowed Malgus to perform such feats and then accused me of cherry picking.
To further elaborate, you tried to downplay the accolade by seemly mixing the circumstance where these feats occured - when Malgus was leading armies - with the nature of the feats itself, which by the third time, Sidious categorically affirms it's derived from Malgus power.
I never claimed such. My grievance is with your original interpretation and explanation regarding Malgus' accolade. I never claimed and I don't believe he's above Vader. This beef, in particular, is between you and AP or Neph.
I must admit, though, I don't understand your reason to rate the quality of Malgus' quote so low if compared with the other two you provided.
Like I stated before, I don't believe Malgus is equal or superior to Vader, however, on the merit of the accolade alone, I certainly believe it has enough quality to put it on par with theirs, after all, the three of them were said to have performed combat oriented feats that weren't replicated, in their respective accolades.
I agreed with you that Malgus' power was involved, of course he has to be powerful. But you're stretching out the accolade beyond it's means. Malgus being referred to as a "soldier" and "warrior" (terms which are a catch-all for all of Malgus' attributes) who helped to sway a "war" in favour of the Sith Emperor of the era, and most importantly, whose "battlefield," the place where wars are fought, and "feats," an umbrella term for impressive accomplishments, that have not been "replicated," simply meaning other people haven't done them, does not highlight Malgus as being the "the best" at anyone one thing. It does not say what particular accomplishments Malgus did which were so impressive.
Sidious literally just said that this powerful dark side warrior - and yes, he is powerful - has done things on the battlefield, in the context of a war, which other people have never done before. He isn't saying Malgus is the most powerful Force user, the greatest lightsaber duelist, the greatest soldier, the greatest Jedi killer, etc. He isn't saying he is the best at anything.
Anyway, if you're this torn up about the accolade I'm tempted to just let you have it, because both Maul and Vader have better ones from out of universe sources on top of their praise from Sidious - and if you remember, your original point of contention with me was your insistence Malgus is somehow superior to Maul, so I'm just letting you know that this singular accolade of Malgus' isn't going to cut it for your argument. Nor are any of his feats.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
Yeah, if you wanted to rain on Malgus' parade even further, you could do a hyperliteral interpretation and say that all "unduplicated battlefield feats" constitutes to is killing Kao Cen Darach, Ven Zallow and some other mooks, because, as should be obvious, you can't kill most people twice. Thus, they would be, by definition, unduplicated battlefield feats, but nowhere does Sheev say they couldn't have been duplicated by Maul or Vader or whomever had they been given the opportunity.
Malgus' accolade offers a wide variety of interpretations; it's nowhere near as clear-cut as Sidious saying Maul's saber skills are nonpareil or that Vader's skills are unmatched by any Sith before him.
Or the many omniscient quotes saying Maul is the "perfect Sith weapon," "All but invincible," "Unstoppable," "one of the most skilled and deadly Sith Warriors/Sith in history," etc. Malgus doesn't compare.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”