Registered: May 2005
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The same Maul who got killed by a Padawan?
I'll quote Traya:
If you were to battle an old Sith Lord in a lightsabre duel, you would find that we're only children playing with toys.
Judging by the fact that the KOTOR Era was 4000 years prior to the OT and PT, this could mean that Lightsaber skills could have deteriorated since the 4000 year gap considering they deteriorated throughout the timeline of the Old Sith Lords and the KOTOR Era according to Traya. Not to mention Bastila had shown how powerful she was in the Force with her battle meditation technique. And the fact she dueled with Revan and survived.
Maul? He said one line throughout the movie and got killed by a Padawan.
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IT'd be fair to note that Kreia's credibility is less than impeccable there, considering what we've seen of the Ancient Sith....and Bastila's hardly one of them. If anything, the sith got stronger thanks to Bane. Bastila never dueled Revan. The duel'd yet to begin whatsoever and battle meditation isn't going to help you in a straight up duel.
Yes, Maul was an atrocious excuse for a character and an arrogant fool, but he's still a good fighter.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
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Since you shot down my points...
It's fair for me to do the same.
Show me venerable proof that the Sith grew stronger after bane. Show me proof that Maul is a good fighter, especially after he was killed by Padawan.
Why wouldn't Bastila use the Battle Meditation on her and Maul? Is it not a Battle? Why not just use it on herself and make Maul lose the will to fight?
I see.... Where does it say you can't use Battle Meditation with two people? Can you show me?
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: The Unknown Regions
Welcome back Janus.
A character's amount of lines in a movie reveals nothing about his skills in combat. I could be the greatest fighter ever and stay silent my entire life. Bastila's Battle Meditation or her prowess with the Force won't help her here because this is a battle with restricted Force powers (i.e. no KotOR Force powers or the like). Maul proved himself to be an excellent fighter with a weapon that was difficult to handle. How many Sith Lords has Bastila killed? Maul killed one of the great Jedi Masters of the era in Qui-Gon Jinn.
You are right though, we really can't take what Kreia said as absolute truth, since more credible people have stated Qui-gon as in Yoda's league, which is obviously BS.
Bastile was thought to be powerful enough to defeat Revan though, as she was the leader of the team meant to kill him. Remember that Masters like Vrook and Kavar were avaliable, so it speaks very much in Bastila's favor.
I think Bastila can take this, because she was believe to be able to take Revan, or at least have a shot at it, and has a lot of experince.
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Registered: May 2005
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The greatest Jedi Master?
Say what?
Actually, Bastila could have killed over fifty at least.
Depending on the quests you took her with on KOTOR.
What makes you think Bastila isn't a good fighter. Doesn't she use the same weapon? Her default Lightsaber *IS* A double bladed one.
Kenobi wasn't an Ordinary Padawan? Sure he was. He was STILL a Padawan and still hadn't recieved much training. Maul was under direct training from the Man who some people think to be the most powerful Sith Lord and he still lost to a Padawan?
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Registered: Feb 2005
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Ah, first off... Battle meditation IS meditation. It requires her sitting down and using her powers. Maul would WTFpwn her in that case.
Second, I like how Kreia's a shakey source when it comes to history of the Sith (Which WAS her specialty) but Han Solo is the qualified expert on the number of star systems, or Jaina is the qualified expert on Luke's fighting style, or another just as shakey source is embraced with open arms here.
1. Bane's doctrine decreed that the Sith passed on everything they knew. Palpatine's feats-even in his ROTS state-were nothing short of incredible. Palpatine had access to the Holocron Darth Andeddu-one of the Ancients, apparently...Sidious, monster that he is, even before DE, could be an anomaly, but considering how the Sith were getting progessively stronger-that's from the ROTS novelization and Dark Rendevous and evolving...Plus, Bane's sheer hatred made manifest in a ritual turned a jungle world into a desert...and Zannah was even stronger than him
2. Maul slaughtered a fortress worth of Black Sun's best, along with a Nightsister. He's also killed Jedi and he's done so very well.
3. The entire point of Battle MEditation is it's meditation which requires concentration to help your own side....try it in a mano a mano duel, your head will fly off your shoulders...or Maul'd die laughing.
As for Revan/Bastila, I was more referring to when Bastila was Jedi, not Sith
Kreia lived ina time post 1000 years and her statements are nothing like the Sith actually WERE? Whereas Han and Jaina are living in, viewing and taking on those things.
It happened. Watch the movie. He was promoted to a Knight for beating Maul. He didn't even have to take the trials becuase the Council was so impressed.
Janus, there is a thing called the battle meld which is battle meditation on a very small scale but more concentrated. Jedi can fight even while using this(source: almost every NJO book and DN book).
I agree with you that Jaina was in a state of speaking with hyperbole, but Han had no reason to. He was trying to comfort Leia. Also, if you look at a map of the galaxy, assuming there is equal planet density, 12 million looks to be pretty close, maybe a few hundred thousand off.
Notice the Leviathan, which was able to rip apart Ancient Jedi(who, logically should be arond equal to the Sith in power since they were able to defeat them on mutiple occasions[Hundred-Year Darkness, Great Sith War]) was defeated by a Jedi from later times. They were good(better from what I have seen), but the statement is hyperbole.
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Battle meld I don't recall Bastila using.
And considering that Kriea's a historian with access to Korriban and Malachor, I would trust her like you would trust your history teacher talking about the Crusades.
Notice that Bane's Sith didn't always challenge people in a real fight(Palpatine killing Plagueis), so they weren't necessarily more powerful.
The Ewoks killed more of the Empires best. Nightsisters weren't necessarily very powerful, generally much weaker then Jedi. He's killed one Jedi. The other two commited suicide.
Bastila has killed dozens of Sith and gone up against the Dark Lord Malak toe-to-toe.
When used on large groups of people, yes, but this is just one, meaning a battle meld can be used(which is the same thing, but requires no sitting, they can still fight).
I don't know why it would help though. Maul is to strong minded to be effected much. Moral loss wont hurt him, he loves combat to much.
I also don't know why anyone is arguing this. Battle meditation improves coordination between troops, it needs at least 2 people to do anything except make Bastila feel better about herself.
Unless the Jedi one is the one that is fighting, it doesn't matter.
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Like I said in my last post, neither Meld or mediation will matter.
Kreia is also a fanboy, unless you really think Revan is the heart of the force.
The fact that people who beat Ancient Sith lost to something that Kyp took down makes me look down on that statement. Unless Kyp makes them look like children too.
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Jan 5th, 2006 02:57 AM
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