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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » The TRUE tragedy of Darth Vader


The TRUE tragedy of Darth Vader
Started by: queeq

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Darth Callous
Mitsu Racer Honda Hater

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: AGU, Tokyo


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Plus, I still think his duel with vader in ep4 was about distraction for luke's escape, and to get "closure" on what happened with anakin.


yes Yep!



"Escape is NOT his plan; I must face him alone!"

-Vader to Tarkin

Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 06:04 AM
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willman
Commander Keen FTW

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: University of Portsmouth (UK)


 

i love that line.


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 01:11 PM
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Generic Hero
KGB

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:


 

The OT duels had emotion.

The PT duels were just flashy **** to show off special effects.

OT >>> PT.

OT villains >>>> PT villains.

Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 03:34 PM
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Quiero Mota

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The 623


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hello Friend
OT villains >>>> PT villains.


I don't know about that, homes. The OT was pretty much all about Vader. Boba Fett and Jabba had their part, but still, it was all about Vader, ese.

I think Darth Maul, Jango Fett, and Count Dooku were cooler than Boba and Jabba.


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 04:47 PM
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Lord Lucien
FU

Registered: Jul 2005
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Oh hell yeah, Boba sucked and Jabba's.......Jabba. Dooku pwns their asses in coolness anyday. Jango to.


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Old Post Feb 3rd, 2006 12:15 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Dooku was great, just way too little screen time and way too little plot relevance. Same goes for Maul actually... they were unfortunately reduced to Sith eye candy.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2006 08:45 AM
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Quiero Mota

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The 623


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Dooku was great, just way too little screen time and way too little plot relevance. Same goes for Maul actually... they were unfortunately reduced to Sith eye candy.


I think giving Maul minimal dialogue actually made him cooler. He reminded me of a Yakuza enforcer or a Hong Kong Triad; completely loyal to his superior and his duty. Not to mention his black clothing, tats, and his black sportsbike.

Dooku was a sophisticated bad guy like a Mafia Don or a dirty politician; using buisness tycoons for his own thing before screwing them and implicating them.

Jango was like a gun-slinging desperado; he was on the other side of the law, and lived by his own set of morals, and yet he wasn't truly evil.

I think those three vatos were cool for those reasons. They filled out the archetypes of already established villian types very well. Orale! cool

I didn't like General Grevious. Not only did that joto look stupid as shit, I think his role and purpose was unecassary. He reminded me of the big dumb body guard, who's only purpose is to die in order too buy time for the real villian. (which basically he was)




Their styles:

Maul: Nice jet black Japanese robe and gi. I liked the contrast of is crimson and black tats and his golden eyes which expressed nothing but bloodthirst.

Dooku: Slick backed hair, a nice silk suit, and finely polished boots. This ese definately had the most style in SW. (Christophe Lee is half Italian, you know)

Jango: Eye-catchy crimson armor, with a flawless glossy finish. (His son could have taken a hint)

^ All of those vatos had great taste in transportation as well. The Sith Infiltrator, Slave I, and Solar Sail were beautiful! Orale! cool

Grevious: He just looked like an old dirty piece of shit car with the ability to talk. I liked his vehicle though; the one Obi comandeered.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2006 09:21 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

I agree on Maul and Dooku, but I still feel they were almost just iconic additions, they hardly had any plot relevance for the PT as a whole.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2006 09:40 AM
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REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

Moderator


 

Indeed. Maul and Dooku had a certain feeling to them that were like "Hey, these guys are sweet!" but they just weren't...around, enough. In OT, we always get to see what Vader is up to. With TPM, we see Maul very little and then he dies; with AOTC, Dooku was...at the very end; with ROTS, he died in the beginning.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2006 08:26 PM
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amity75
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland nil.


 

Originally to me Vader was a "Pantomine" bad guy. A kind of "Boo hiss" kind of character. You just couldn't really imagine him doing anything REALLY bad because he just wasn't a bad person at heart. However, he really gave us reason to despise him in TESB. For me, the most shocking line wasn't "I am your father" but rather "Join me". Blowing up entire planets is one thing but to try and corrupt your own child and reduce them to your own level of hate, now THAT'S evil.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2006 11:23 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Yeah, Vader's cool. I have my doubts about Anakin's coolness.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2006 05:56 PM
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metalmario
Junior Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Switzerland


 

Well I think Anakin is a pretty sad guy. I would just give this short illustration before I begin:

strong mind + strong body = Leader; characters like Yoda or Palpatine.

strong mind + weak body = Smart-ass politician.

weak mind + strong body = Perfect puppet: people like Anakin.

That's just what happens with Anakin. He's exceedingly powerful yet has a weak mind and so he is corrupted. The real moment of weakness as I see it is in AOTC, when Anakin begins to truly lust for power. He wants to surpass his master, he wants to become all-powerful, he wants to control everything. That's the only real film of the trilogy where he acts pretty much on his own after all.

In TPM he's just a kid and follows Qui-Gon around until he enters tutoring with the Jedi.

In AOTC he's a young man, still officially a padawan but heck he's capable of acting on his own. He's officially bound to the Jedi code but we see several times that it doesn't seem to have that much of an influence on his actions (slaughtering the Tusken, marrying Padme...) Of course he's already beginning to fall under the influence of Palpatine but he hasn't yet got an iron grip on his mind. This only comes in ROTS.

In ROTS, Palpatine has all the cards in hand to turn Anakin into his puppet: he has the secret to save his wife from a death prophesied as inevitable, and he has shaken his trust in the Jedi Order. These are the two bases of Anakin's life. By perverting his perception of them, Palpatine is able to throw Anakin into doubt and tip him towards the dark side. Anakin just isn't really in control anymore, since Palpatine is already closing the trap in around him.

In the OT Anakin isn't even there, it's just Vader (same body, different guy). The only moment when Anakin really acts is in ROTJ when he kills Palpatine and saves luke. In those few seconds of film he kills the man that has been his mentor/master/torturer for the past twenty years (but from whom he has been unable to save himself alone, it took Luke's help after all). In the same time he gives up any right he may have had to rule the Empire. He basically forsakes everything he has had his whole life (his twisted view of things didn't even see the transition fom the Republic to the Empire as evil, it was just the same thing, with the subtraction of the political obstacles). He also gives up his twisted dreams of becoming all-powerful which he has had since AOTC, and that evolved into "ruling the galaxy as father and son" in TESB. He does all that out of love and compassion, to save his son from a gruesome death. Now that was cool.

Old Post Oct 17th, 2006 07:14 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Yes, Vader from the OT is cool. Anakin is an unsympathetic whining brat.


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Old Post Oct 17th, 2006 09:52 PM
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sithsaber408
Intelligently Designed

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Impacting nations and generations


 

That may be true, but I still think Anakin is cool.


I might have made a few of the decisions that he did, were I in his position.

He is sympathetic, in that he should never have been trained, he was attached to his mother and Padme before ever arriving on Coruscant, as a podracer and a slave, he had pride and resentment.

He was trained because 1.) He wanted to be (without really understanding, methinks.)
2.) It was forced by Qui-gon and Obi-wan. (more important, methinks)



He does the best that he can, at first, with his power and his knowledge but ends up choosing the wrong path, mostly because of the things that are important to him.



I agree that it cheapens the OT Darth Vader (hence the thread title "The TRUE tradgedy of Darth Vader" stick out tongue ) from being the ultra-badass villian that we knew him as, but it also gives him much more depth and humanity, which I'm fine with.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2006 05:04 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Yes, Vader from the OT is cool. Anakin is an unsympathetic whining brat.


Your god Lucas said that they were always supposed to be the same, but the fanboys of the OT made Vader out to be a badass.

And since you can never question Lucas' interpretation of his own saga....take your opinion to the EU forum stick out tongue .


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2006 06:26 PM
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Cybervader
Master of Cyberspace

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Singapore Star System


 

I still stand by obi-wan's opinion of anakin in TPM, he's a "pathetic lifeform". He maintains that in ROTJ, "he's more machince than man. Twisted and evil". In other words, so pathetically trapped within his mechanical suit and the evil sith's control!!


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 03:16 AM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

but the suit is not a control mechanism...you mean metaphorically?


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 03:44 AM
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Cybervader
Master of Cyberspace

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Singapore Star System


 

yes


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 03:46 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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But Anakin is never a guy we can cheer for, like Luke. And I think that sucks...so he always was a pathetic lifeform... why do we have to watch six hours about a pathetic life form???? Who does not change drastically except in outfit???

I say: Luke rules and he is the TRUE chosen one.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 07:14 AM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
But Anakin is never a guy we can cheer for, like Luke. And I think that sucks...so he always was a pathetic lifeform... why do we have to watch six hours about a pathetic life form???? Who does not change drastically except in outfit???

I say: Luke rules and he is the TRUE chosen one.


LUCAS says no, so shut up. no expression

I like how you b*tch all the time at us, but then you're just as much a victim of your/his stupid logic as you try to make us.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 01:33 PM
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