Try Wikipedia. Granted it's not always right but it specifically says about Darth Revan and I quote "Thought by many to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time"
Revan's moves suck huh? Well it was enough to defeat everyone he ever faced including the strongest mandalorian, the strongest Echani, hundreds of mandalorians, hundreds of Jedi, hundreds of dark Jedi, and two Sith lords, one of them strong enough to control the Star Forge and his old apprentice.
As for your "he's stupid because he didn't make a giant fleet to destroy the Republic." We're talking about one of the greastest (if not the greatest) tactician ever. Did you even finish KOTOR? Did you see the ending where there were hundreds of Capital Ships coming out of the Star Forge with Bastila saying the Republic fleet is decimated and the core worlds are defenseless against us? Do you even know why he left? Because there was a much greater threat on the way, he went into the Unknown Regions to singlehandedly destroy the ancient Sith Empire.
As for Yoda, granted he's powerful but he didn't even defeat Sidious. Lord Revan has Force lightning too, and I'd bet just about anything it's stronger than Sidious' was.
Knowledge wise? Yoda learned probably everything in the Jedi temple and about everything in the light side, maybe even a little something on the dark side. Lord Revan had a lust for knowledge, plundering not only the Jedi temple and the Valley of the Dark Lords with the four very powerful Sith Lord's tombs, but an entire PLANET sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He learned dozens of techniques to kill or turn light side Jedi or even dark jedi. Yoda had 900 years but how often did he leave the Jedi temple in that millenia of peace?
Will power? Lord Revan easily. The only one ever to resist the powers of Malachor V, which even Kreia could not and she could kill three council level Jedi with at the same time with one use of the Force. Revan was also one of two that could control the Star Forge and Revan could do it much better. Hundreds of others died trying because they failed and were consumed.
Experience? Revan fought as the lead guy in two different wars spanning 7 years, whichever side he was on started winning. What else do you need? The guy's superior to most everyone in about every category.
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I agree he is superior to most everyone. But personally I think the following people could take him.
Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, and NJO Luke.
But keep in mind Yoda would have to bust out the ultimate lightside trick, Mace would have to surprise him with Vaapad, and Obi-Wan and Luke would ninja win it.
__________________ "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
Well, IMO he just couldn't have gotten stronger because he excelled in everything that could increase your power. Maybe if he had Anakin's potential, but his was already enormously high.
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Registered: May 2005
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in those 800 years how many people did yoda fight before the clone wars, how bout none. that being said he did get about 2 years worth of combat experience during the clone wars, now consider that revan had 8 years of COMBAT experience that he knew more than any force user ever about the force and lightsaber combat and he spent his 8 years of war refining it to perfection, not only that but the only jedi yoda ever fought were dooku and sidious one he owned one who fought him to a draw,(more or less i still like to think the green dude won) and they were less than half as powerful as Revan, malak could probably take them both. But revan fought and killed countless jedi and sith most of them would make most of the jedi order except maybe windu, Rots anakin,obi and yoda look like younglings compared to them, kreia could kill 3 jedi masters more powerful than obi and mace with one lift of her hand and revan passed her in all matters completely and utterly. Everything yoda could do with the force could be done be even the crappiest apprentces during revans time except maybe absorbing force lightning but the master probably could. For lightsaber techniques forget it revan mastered all 7 forms, and threw in what he learned from combat and from people like sadow,ragnos, hord (the greatest swordsman ever) and ajunta pall. Yoda had form 4 form 1 and a strong connection to the force that's as far as he got. so Revan has superior knowledge of the force better saber skills 4 times as much combat experience, more accomplishments more experience against other force users and the ability to predict his enemies movements with the force how pray tell does yoda be that much better then him? please if somehow this has no bearing on revan being better then him enlighten me, if not please stop being such a lightside fanboy.
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He mastered all seven forms ? No way. It took people like Dooku (who is estimated one of the most powerful Jedi the temple had trained in the last centuries) 50 years mastering form II. Learning something is not "mastering" it.
Not that it would even matter. Yoda (according to "Shadowhunter") could avoid getting hit by 3 Jedi Masters trying to hit him with lightsabers without even having a lightsaber in hand. Do you realy think Revan is that fast ?
Yoda doesn't use his lightsaber to defend himself. When he uses it, then with the intention to kill or hurt somebody.
How should Revan do that ?
With the force ? He has no chance against Yodas force defence.
With a lightsaber ? Yoda will kill him.
See...that whole thing is not about tactical skills. It would be lightsaber fighting and you can ask yourself if 800 years of training (even within the temple vs guys like Mace, Obi-Wan and Dooku) can be matched by 30-40 years of training (although these include a lot of "real" combat). I don't think so.
Can a 30 year old professional boxer that went through hundrets of fights (sparring) kick the ass of a 60 year old Shaolin master (that never had "real" fighting only training in a Shaolin monastery) ?
I don't think so...
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The closest thing to war that Yoda saw was in episode III. It would be like studying "Guitars for dummies." or any other book like that. No matter how much you read it and study it, you may never learn to play the guitar. Revan got out there and "Read the book a couple times then played the guitar" so to speak. What i'm saying is that Yoda was constantly studying and teaching and such. Revan was studying and putting what he learned to good use.
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Registered: May 2005
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You're joking right, Revan's lightsaber technique was miles ahead of yoda, maybe he didn't master them all but he sure as hell came close, and yoda being faster is completley irrelevant, the reason he was able to do that is because he could forsee the masters attacks through the force, like revan but revan could do it MUCH better, as for froce defense, what do we really see yoda do, absorb some lightning and block some objects thrown by crappy sub-par sith lords, Revan's force knowledge was much greater then yoda, as said kreia could kill 3 jedi with one raise of her hand and revan was much more powerful then she was. Revan not only knew and learned over twice as much as almost every other jedi but he also practised it in real combat.
I have a question for you if there was an SAS commando with much better training more natural skill and greater knowledge of weapons and tactics who'd fought countless campaigns and won every time and perfected his skills through combat but had only 8 years of training against a 60 year old who'd spent his entire life training but never fought a real war? The one with 8 years would take him down in seconds.
Revan learned much more of the force and lightsaber combat than yoda ever did and he perfected it and used it in combat against more powerful opponents. The opponents during revans time namely malak and vrook had just as much force defense, but still Yoda had no where near as much experience against force using opponents, he wouldn't be prepared for what revan could throw at him as it was knowledge given to him by ancient sith most of which could whipe the floor with yoda. Revan would brake yoda's force defenses as kreai said, "there are some techniques within the force for which there are no defence". As for lightsaber combat Revan had fought jedi and sith for nearly a decade he'd learned every form as well as secrets from the ancient sith and refined them through combat, so chances are he mastered most of those forms, it's not a matter of time for mastering combat it's a matter of experience in real combat. So To save you time from reading this uber long post, Revan would brake yoda's force defense and he had much more knowledge of lightsaber combat knowledge that he perfected during battle against thousands of force wielding opponents, knowledge that he'd turned in to skills and eventually mastery of almost all know lightsaber forms, his combat experience taught him which style is good for which situations and how to blend them for best results, using his extensive knowledge of saber combat he would quickly find a flaw in yoda's style then ruthelessly exploit it.
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Ok, thats your point of view Frobo.....you have certainly worked a lot with this post, so i won't critizise you too much, even though i don't agree.
I won't bore you with another neverending post, just mentioning reasons already said.
But personally I think Yoda could pull this off, speed is not irrelevant.
Besides, did Revan master Vaapad....i thought it wasn't discovered at that time....
Just out of curiousity why haven't you guys included Darth Plagueis because according to Rick McCallum and George Lucas Plagueis the Wise was the most powerful force user the galaxy had ever witnessed. As you will all see in the Star Wars Novel Dark Lord of the Galaxy by Rick McCallum.
um buddy, I know you are new and all (by the way, welcome), but this is a Yoda vs Revan duel, not a who should be fighting thread. If you want to create a thread with Plagueis, go right ahead. Just please don't add in things that have no bearing on what is being debated. Also, not calling you a lier, but where did you hear about the book, and when is it coming out?
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about why we haven't included him in any threads, that is because we do not know enough about his combat skills, a few sentences from Sidious about him being powerful does not tell us about lightsaber skills, force skills etc.
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Like Fishy said, Form 7 was around. He could've (probably) learned Juyo but not Vaapad but that would be a useless form for him anyway since he's already dark side. Look at how Revan holds his lightsaber on the ship before Malak attacks, he also waits for the three Jedi to come to him. I haven't seen that before, maybe he created his own style.
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Jun 15th, 2005 06:06 PM
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