^Sin, I'd appreciate it if you stopped sucking and repeatedly posting that garbage. Kthnx.
Well its out for a couple of days now, I'm just going to stop talking cryptically about
GoW3 and I will not post in spoiler tags either. So be warned.
Strength: Hah. This is not even close. Firstly, the Echidna fight is an INDICTMENT on the argument
that Dante is close to as strong as Kratos. Echidna closed her mouth on Dante twice, during which
his voice was straining while he was trying to lift open her mouth with both hands. He had far
more of a struggle with that than he should have if he was even close to being on Kratos level.
Kratos in the beginning of GoW1 handled the small hydra heads, which are still bigger than
Echidna, with far more ease. The godzilla sized main hydra head didn't put up much of a
struggle in a tug of war of sorts either. And Kratos in GoW1 isn't half as strong as he is now.
The Savior punch catching? It's impressive, but not as impressive as it looks. The Savior is both
hollow and slow, thus its punches actually aren't that strong relative to its size. Seriously, the
extent of Savior's punching power is creating some minor rubble in the ground with a lot of dust
kicking up.No greater in magnitude than what a grenade would do. Not only that, his punch
was already slowing down as he was about to hit Dante. I'd put Savior at a little heavier than
the Statue of Liberty, which is like 220 tons, so yeah let's say Savior is about 250 tons.
Kratos literally swings pillars weighing heavier than Savior in God of War 2.
-In God of War 3 Kratos amazingly stops Cronos from crushing him. Cronos had Kratos
standing on his left palm, and Kratos looked like nothing but a speck. Cronos proceeded bring
down his right hand on Kratos, clapping his hands together, and Kratos not only stops Cronos'
hand from crushing him, he pushed Cronos' hand UP several feet. This is Kratos against
mountain busting strength.
-Earlier in the game he picks up Gaia's severed hand and pushes
it off a cliff. Later in the game he operates, I guess you'd call it a circular lever, that pulls
up an entire level (The labyrinth) up to the Palace of Olympus. The labyrinth was about in the
center of Mt. Olympus somewhere.
-So yeah he can manipulate these big objects and creatures, but what about small dense objects?
Could he crush a diamond? Possibly. He did crush a magic emerald almost into dust with his
left hand--Casually at that. As small as it was, ironically that was one of the most impressive
strength feats he's shown, at least to me.
Anyway, Kratos is at the very LEAST, an order of magnitude stronger than Dante. Realistically
by feats, it's probably more like a 100 times stronger.
Speed: Dante outclasses Kratos in outright speed, to counter Kratos outclassing him in
strength. However this is not a race. Reflexes/reaction time matter more. Kratos
has fought flyers, teleporters, intangibility users, and outright speedsters all with little problem.
Lahkesis and Atropos could fly, teleport, become intangible, and Kratos fought them both at
the same time. Zeus flys and teleports, hell Zeus can even do a doppleganger attack, splitting
himself into several (I saw up to 8) physical clones. Kratos had no problem enganging
in a fight with Hermes, able to react to his attacks with potential QTEs and was able to tag him
throughout and tired him out with his relentless attacks. Hermes was fast enough to run down
Mt Olympus casually and fast enough to RUN UP a completely vertical chain. His movement
in short bursts was reminscent of Arkham's as well. I know people want to discredit Kratos'
blocking lightning against Zeus as him reacting to Zeus gestures, but based on what he has
done in the above, you shouldn't.And he only started blocking as soon the attack was launched,
not before. On just pure natural speed, Dante's movement be anything new to Kratos' excellent reflexes.
Kratos' acrobatics must also be commended. There are a couple of instances where he cleanly
jumped a distance of probably 800 ft. Durability: Heh. This is where things get interesting. Dante will have a hell of a time hurting Kratos
in the first place. Kratos' durability feats are epic in GoW3. First, I'll start with a little unnoticed
edge durability feat from GoW2: When Kratos was fighting Lahkesis and Atropos at the same time,
there was a scene where Atropos came up from behind Kratos from one of the mirrors, she grabbed
him and momentarily restrained him with her immensely long Lady Deathstrike esque claws and
they didn't cut Kratos. Let's go on.
-Kratos tanks a slash from Hades' hooks in the very beginning of the fight. Hades' sneaks out of
the darkness, swings, makes contact with Kratos' flesh and tried to pull his soul out. Kratos tanked it.
A dual feat for not getting getting cut at all by Hades (who is in Kratos'general strength class) and
for resisting his soul being taken.
-In the first level of the game, there is a scene where one of Poseidon's leviathan creatures make
a massive lunge at Kratos from above him, trying to impale Kratos with one of its pointed crab
like legs. Kratos tanked this too, it hit him square, pushed him down to his knees, but he promptly
pushed the leg off and slammed it into the ground. Keep in mind the Leviathan is strong enough
to pierce Gaia's skin and even restrain her and other the titans. Massive durability feat here.
-Near the end of the first level, Zeus charges up a massive lightning bolt and throws it at Kratos
and Gaia's direction, and the explosion of electricity severed Gaia's left hand, all it did to Kratos was
knock him off Olympus and the mountain itself. Otherwise Kratos was completely unharmed.
Keep in mind that Gaia and the other titans probably weigh a couple millions of tons.
-Kratos falls all the way from some distance up Mount Olympus down to the underworld, twice.
The first time he falls into part of the river styx. The second time he jumps from within the Labyrinth
(which is maybe halfway up Mt. Olympus) down to the Underwold again and this time he lands on solid
ground. I know someone will stupidly say 'but he landed in water!' for the first one, not that it matters at
that distance, however the second example moots this anyway.
-Kratos' breaks one Gaia's tendons or something, and upon doing so there was a violent explosion
of what looked like magma. Kratos was unaffected. This happens again when Kratos stabs Cronos in
the forehead, a large firey, volcano-like explosion occurs and Kratos was in the center of it, unbothered.
-I already mentioned it as a strength feat above, but Kratos being able to withstand Cronos trying to
crush him inbetween his palms is a ground breaking feat. Consider the strength behind it seeing as the
Titans are mountain tossers/busters.
-Kratos also survives the weight of Cronos' fall. Kratos was hanging on Cronos' nose while he
was falling head first into a rock shelf. Kratos survived the impact and fell through that rock all the
way to a new underground passage.
-Hephaestus failed to crush Kratos with a giant metal stake freshly plunged in magma. Another burn durability
feat on top of another blunt force durability feat. (and of course strength feat)
-Another immense edged weapon durability, while Zeus and Kratos are struggling over the Blade of
Olympus inside Gaia, both are holding onto it by the blade itself. Despite all the pushing and shoving
back and forth while doing this, their hands are in tact. Kratos in that same scene was able to CATCH
and BLOCK the blade itself with his bare hands while Zeus was slashing at him, twice. Again, he grabbed
the edge of the blade itself. Twice. The thought of Dante doing anything more than glancing off Kratos'
flesh harmlessly with a slash should be
getting laughable by now.
-Kratos while in Gaia's heart chamber, survives and shakes off her massive self collapse/destruction.
-After the above happens, an evil, spiritual form of Zeus climbs out of his body and charges a white
energy blast at Kratos. Kratos is dazed by it. This energy blast was strong enough to break
his Cestus weapons--the only weapon of Kratos' arsenal strong enough to break formations of glowing
crystals called onyx (looks nothing like actual onyx though).
Yeah, that about does it for durability. Dante hurting Kratos at all is...questionable at best.
Magic: Kratos is magic is superior offensively. Enough said.
Last edited by CosmicComet on Mar 19th, 2010 at 09:45 PM
Endurance: Kratos' endurance is far more tested than Dante's. Kratos climbed Pandora's temple
mountain for a couple of days non-stop. At the end of GoW3, after all he went through, Kratos still
wasn't close to breathing heavy. Dante was exhausted after fighting Mundus in a cramped dungeon.
Dante will get exhausted quickly as he's taking a beating from a being many many leagues above him
or anyone else in his universe in strength, far worse than he was when just getting damaged from
someone in merely in his strength class. (Vergil.) Likewise how tired was Vergil as Neo Angelo in
their last fight in DMC1? And there was nothing major scale or powerwise going on there.
Intelligence: Intelligence is entirely disregardable here. Neither are shown to be geniuses in any form,
so this is not a factor. Kratos at least has shown ingenuity in his fights, and solved major puzzles in
Pandora's temple. Despite the baseless claim to otherwise, its actually Dante who dives into a fight head
first. And Dante gets marks off for intelligence for frat boy-esque douchebaggery dialogue. lol.
Combat: Another baseless claim that Dante is more skilled. Where does this come from?
Surely its not because Dante is from a Japanese game? Dante's
weapon designs are excrutiatingly simple. Kratos would have no problem wielding any of them.
Kratos' variations of chain weapons require immensely more dexterity and skill than any weapon
Dante has.
--In a hand to hand fight, with no weapons, magic/gimmickry and just their physical attributes, Kratos
stomps. Dante's doesn't punch hard enough to make Kratos blink. Kratos also punches harder.
Dante's flashy kung fu style will be overtaken by Kratos' more dominant wrestler-boxer style. He will
be outgrappled promptly and simply torn limb from limb. Hand to Hand is not the stipulation you
want Dante to fight Kratos in, because he lacks any means of doing DAMAGE at all. The fight would
either last for years with Dante simply trying to be evasive after he realizes he's not doing damage
or, Dante gets up closes and tries his best to fire off and he promptly gets grabbed and torn to shreds.
Conclusion: In a full on fight, Dante's sole means of staying alive as long as possible would be his
time slowing abilities with quicksilver. That's it. Unfortunately for him, its not spammable and runs out,
and he's never really been able to make much use of it canonically in any boss fight.
Kratos can counter it easily anyway. His reaction time is fast enough to react to the 'wave' that
comes upon activating quicksilver. He can just cast an Army of Sparda which will shield him throughout
the entire duration of the quicksilver spell since time will be slowed for him. Kratos could also just cast
a solar flare, which blind Dante for a long time as it was able to blind Cronos himself for a few minutes.
Other than Quicksilver, after seeing GoW3 Dante truly has nothing else to offer. His bullets are
a complete non-factor. He's too weak to slash Kratos, his regereration and damage soak is easily
overcome by someone his own strength level let alone someone of Kratos' strength level. Hell, his
regeneration and damage soak isn't even impressive compared to what Kratos has come across.
Lahkesis, Atropos and Zeus all have superior regeneration and damage soak. And even his natural
speed isn't anything Kratos' hasn't dealt with before.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Mar 19th, 2010 at 09:44 PM
Ah.. big read. To note the majority of the Savior is solid and speed is faster then anyone Kratos has come across and he already has trouble hitting fast opponents (Hermes) Not bothered to get too much into this. Still Dante.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Admit it, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: the power of hope is epic. It allowed Kratos to defeat the spirit of Zeus, who destroyed all of his weapons and make him taste fear. That beat down with Zeus got so bloody that it splattered the screen and you couldn't see a damn thing. Hell, it was pretty long too. I kept pressing circle for 10 minutes and stopped because I had to sleep so I don't wake up late for my Friday class..
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
Cronos swallowed Kratos. Kratos cut his way out of his stomach. Titan digestive acid tanking ftw.
You don't have to get into this. I've covered everything. Dante's speed is not above Hermes, who Kratos actually had no trouble hitting at all, see the dialogue of the fight, "No fair Kratos, no hitting!"
Dante's speed doesn't make him harder to hit than flying teleporters like Lahkesis, Atropos or Zeus. He fought Lahkesis and Atropos at the
same time and fought 8 different clones of Zeus at once.
Don't remember that cutscene, show it to me? Hermes' boots leave burn trails anyway, and in bursts his movements already look like Arkham's. Regardless, differing physics of different worlds, Hermes speed is enchanted anyway and unlikely to work the same manner. Poseidon also broke the sound barrier when he flew down. What other actions? There is little room for comparison as all Hermes does is punch.
And still, Kratos has already faced multiple flying teleporters at once, and Dante still doesn't have the cutting power to get past Kratos' durability either.
DMC3 running down the Temin-ni-gru (?) looked more like magic flame, meh. Thats true, now Kratos found it diffucult to hit him and all he did was run. Dante is faster and can/will strike faster then Hermes.
Can go more into how Dante can infact pierce Kratos, or just go for Yamato. Dantes strength and speed feats are increased by his DT, alot harder for Kratos.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I'm not convinced Dante is faster than Hermes but even if, his speed is not more overwhelming than multiple flying teleporters. Kratos still has instant AOE magic on his side too.
DT has never shown to be a big multiplier in strength. It's not going to close the gap enough between his strength and Hades' strength, nor the Leviathan's strength. All FAR FAR FAR above Dante in strength, and, Kratos has already utterly tanked a slash and impalement from those two. To even reach the point of putting a cut on Kratos would require a multiplier far greater than DT offers
Yamato? Yamato is far less powerful than the BoO. Kratos was able to catch the edge of the BoO's blade twice while Zeus himself was swinging it. And Zeus is just as strong as Kratos himself.
But evident in that fight its not easy for him to fight fast enemies. All im saying.
Wasnt saying DT would make him at Kratos level but it would be enough. When was he stabbed by them? It wouldn't need to be that high :/ Not that Dante will get damaged with his speed, reactions and Royal guard. Those combined will keep him safe.
Its not more powerful but its better at cutting, Yamatos made for that purpose. Dont remember that scene either.
Mind pointing out when he got stabbed by Leviathan/Hades and grabbing a swing by Zeus.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
All that was evident was Hermes' growing desperation that Kratos was hitting him so readily.
No. The very point I was trying to make was that someone near or even AT Kratos' level was not powerful enough to cut him. Hades' couldn't cut him with the hooks, which had no problem cutting Atlas and Cronos. Dante needs a HUGE boost to be able to even embed a tiny cut into Kratos. The Leviathan creature tried to impale Kratos in the very first level as I already said. Kratos got hit, shrugged it off, and slammed the leg down. The Leviathan was also strong enough to restrain Gaia and even block her from punching. It is massively strong. Dante absolutely needs to be ABOVE this level to cut Kratos. He's not.I went over all of this already in my first mega post on this page.
Hades slash happens at the beginning of the Hades fight, Zeus' blocked slashes happen when they are fighting inside Gaia in their final battle.
Yamato hasn't cut through anything that the BoO wouldn't. And the Yamato failed to cut through Rebellion when they clashed.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Mar 20th, 2010 at 01:22 AM
Gender: Male Location: In the universe, causing chaos.
Hermes faster than Dante? Lol.
Well, when Dante DTed, he destroyed a city, I think. I don't see how he could survive getting his mind, soul, body, and soul attacked. I mean, Yamato cuts holes thru dimentions, and I don't see how Kratos ISN'T gonna get cut. I mean, did you say that one of the Sisters of Fate cut him, lol? Anyway, half gameplay, lol.
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Last edited by iChaos on Mar 20th, 2010 at 02:15 AM
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