quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I always resort to secondary opinions from reputable experts who share my opinion agreed. I like to know my opinion is supported by evidence and not empty opinion - agreed.

Hypocrisy, I can tell that your charisma bypass was successful.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Short list

Musical
- renders much of existing USA RnR (esp Rockabilly, Phil. Mach., doo wop, pre-Motown girl groups, etc) out of style during initial introduction in 1964

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- intense appeal of music revives bland/stultified pop market, success set up environment for British Invasion

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- lay foundation for "arena rock," with their 1965 performance in Shea Stadium (NYC) entertaining 55,000 fans, demonstrating their intense appeal

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- Beatles helped set in motion a maturation process for RnR, ultimately ending with their contribution for establishing "Rock" by proving that RnR could be conduit for significant message re culture/society: in process they expanded to embrace topics and musical style formerly excluded from RnR genre

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- expansion in full bloom on Revolver '66: "Taxman"--protest about rapacious taxation by UK govt, "Eleanor Rigby"-- reflecting on emptiness of life and religious ritual, melody set to string quartet (no trad. rock insts), "Love To You"-- introduction of subcontinent Indian musical style (raga) and instruments (tabla and sitar), "Tomorrow Never Knows"-- Lennon advocation for opening one's mind to new experience, exploiting technical innovations (see technical)

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- music sets new artistic and commercial standards for future RnR (the "yardstick" by which every group will be measure in '60s and into '70s)

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- sets trend for bands establishing and maintaining artistic control over their music:

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- inaugurate era of "self-contained" band (inspiring thousands to pick up guitars and imitate them)

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- help to reestablish trend that artists compose songs for themselves: bands now expected (by fans) to create own material; redirects song-writing trend away from centralized, production-line, professional song-writing concept indicative of Brill Bldg

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- set trend for bands to record their music themselves

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- in all, establishing many aspects of "DIY" trend, which becomes measure of authority

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- accorded credit for creating new style of album with Sgt Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band: "concept album," in which songs can be seen to relate to one central topic or idea

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- helps establish "album" rather than "single" as industry standard
- seen as pushing Beatle creativity into realm of classical music: Pepper's songs now contain stylistic diversity and artistic sophistication to be considered equivalent to Romantic "art-song" and album equivalent to Romantic "song cycle" by Schubert, Schumann, Wolf, etc
- seen as early pioneers of music video with promotional film for "SFF", also sections of HDN

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
- said to start (but re-introduce) concept of double A-side single

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Music Technology/Creative Process
- begin to create exclusively in studio (retire from touring in 12/66)
- first successful band to do so, set trend for future bands
- pioneer new techniques to maintain creative/innovative musical style
- begin to rely on creativity of studio technicians/producer:
- E.g. ADT (artificial double tracking ["flanging"]) created to ease problematic vocal double-tracking process for JLennon, comes into wide-spread use on instruments in future albums
- E.g. Lennon's request that G Martin combine two "uncombinable" versions of "Strawberry Fields Forever"
- E.g. subjecting voices, instruments to unusual electronic modifications (limiters, etc) to produce sophisticated, inimitable "sound"
- explore innovative, avant-garde techniques (formerly unused in RnR)
- E.g. musique concrete--modification of sound through unconventional techniques: tape loops used in "Tomorrow..", steam calliope 'wash' used to help create circus atmosphere in "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite"
- E.g. Aleatoric approach toward creating orchestral crescendos in "Day In A Life"
- E.g. avant-garde influence in "Revolution No. 9"
- experimentation is so pervasive that nearly every subsequent technique used in Rock can be traced to precedent in Beatles music
- first significant group to achieve "verticality" in business through Apple Corp. (i.e controlling all significant aspects of their business (from songwriting to recording to movies etc. through an in-house/self-contained entity)

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Lana
Not massively known - precisely my point.

*goes back to playing video games*

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Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It was hypocricy wasn't it? You go around saying how music itself is subjective only to quote "experts" matter of factly. This shortlist, despite being a copy and paste job, is quite bullshit. Allow me:



So they were the next big thing, who cares? We're arguing influence, not popularity.



Being the first is different to being the most influential. That said, every band that came with the British Invasion (Deep Purple etc) were better.



Again, being the latest flavour doesn't meant you've innovated music. We're arguing influence and innovation, not popularity. Come on dude, do better.



Speaking on current issues? It was done before The Beatles and it was done after. Them being the flavour of the time is what made people pay attention, not their talent.



So they spoke about spiritual things and real world issues in their songs, so what? Again, nothing that hadn't been done before. Their POPULARITY just made it noticeable.

None of them were technically great musicians.



Yeah, they were the first boyband. Is that what we have to thank them for? Nice. What great standards they set.



Yeah, then one of them famously got outbid for his own music by Michael Jackson. Great control there.



Again and again, someone inspired The Beatles to pick up guitars and play them. When are you going to prove they were massively innovative and influential? You're not doing so.



Claiming that they're innovative for writing their own songs? Hahahahaha. Too funny, go on.



Hahaha, no seriously, continue. Waiting to see how innovative and influential they are...



They established that you should do it yourself? A) They didn't and B) Big deal. That's a fact and it was a fact before The Beatles.



They opened the doors for bands to be overly pretentious and uncharacteristically wanky? Good job.



Music video is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with music itself. We're discussing MUSIC innovation and influence (well, I am. You're just showing how popular they were and what they did).



So? So what? Where's the overwhelming evidence that they influenced the most people ever and innovated more than FNM?



You're claiming they pioneered working in a studio? So what? WHERE is the proof that they are so much more innovative and influential than FNM? What are these pioneering techniques you love to cite by never detail? You can't just make claims and hope I'll go away. Come on, start spilling.

Also, wait. Lennon SUGGESTS that someone else does something innovative (George) because they can't do it themselves? What happened to "Do It Yourself" music? You know, the one thing you claim they pioneered? 99% of the "innovating" that "they" did wasn't even them, it was George.

All you managed to prove was that they did some stuff and made themselves extremely huge and popular.

I'll away the next essay on how they're more influential and innovative than bands like FNM and Radiohead.

-AC

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Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not little known though are they?

Anybody else? I've got time.

-AC

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Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Might go to the farm.

Hear they've got some free range chickens.

-AC

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Originally posted by Lana
Oh please, quit jumping at me, I'm on your side here.

They're not really a household name. A lot of people might recognize their music (because of songs like Epic), but probably won't know the name.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Lana
Oh please, quit jumping at me, I'm on your side here.

They're not really a household name. A lot of people might recognize their music (because of songs like Epic), but probably won't know the name.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's more to reply to, go on Whirly.

And no, it's no insane. I believe that they surpass The Beatles in every area by a long way, I find it hard to believe that anyone with objective comprehension of music would agree with you, but that's me.

-AC

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's more to reply to, go on Whirly.

And no, it's no insane. I believe that they surpass The Beatles in every area by a long way, I find it hard to believe that anyone with objective comprehension of music would agree with you, but that's me.

-AC

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Theres not really more to reply to AC

And I disagree and believe that your ideas are incredibly flawed. But thats me and every expert on google , but what's your opinion compared to that of thousands of others? I know you'll play the "popularist" card, problem is it doesn't really get you out of jail.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Captain Kirk
Give it up, you're getting owned badly Mr.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What do you think of Britney Spears? That she's shit? Millions would disagree. What's your opinion to MILLIONS of others?

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm an expert on music, writing for a magazine or website doesn't make you any different.

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Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Officiality doesn't equate intelligence or credibility, nor does mass opinion.

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[i]
The very fact that you resort to Google is pathetic. Google also believes that Robbie Williams is heavy metal remember?

-AC [/B]

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
You seem to think of her more than me as you use this all the time i've noticed, it's cool she's a healthy girl.

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
My mum went to trinity college London at 15, she's an expert on music AC.

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Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
And you think Faith No More are as influential as the Beatles, I'm waiting for you to make a point here AC.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by BobbyD
AC, it's okay that YOU believe they're not as influential, but when thousands of producers, musicians, music historians regard the Beatles as the most influential band ever, even you have to step aside and say: Hmm, they have something. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. The outcome is not determined by how you feel on the subject matter.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Your point was that thousands of opinions over-ride mine.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

you couldn't argue The Beatles over Britney, could you?

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Point? I don't need a music "officiality" badge to know I'm an expert on music.